Roger Köppel: Hello, Mr. Prime Minister. Hello, Viktor. I hope you’re fine. Welcome to Switzerland! Historical achievements today, peace deal in Gaza. Can you say something about this new Peace Council you have just attended? You’re a signing, founding member.
I think it’s important, because the previous system of international organizations are basically paralyzed. Far real challenges are coming up, like the Gaza crisis, Palestinian issue, war in Ukraine; the international order is not able to act properly. So I think President Trump is totally right, that if we continue as we have done up to now, nothing will change. So if we would like to make peaces, and consolidate territories, and reach peaceful coexistence of territories, people and states and nations, we have to do something new – we have to initiate something new. This is a new initiative. It has a chance to be successful. We don’t know exactly how it will be concluded, but the intention behind it is very good; the target of peace is the most important thing, and the people who are involved are serious. So now we have good chances to do something good and effective – we hope so.
How did the American president convince you to join? You’re the only chief of government of the European Union so far.
You know, I know the President back to more than a decade. He was always the man of peace. I always was convinced that whatever the confrontations and discussions of the Europeans are with the Americans, we have to support peace efforts of Trump. So I think what we are doing now in Brussels is a mistake: supporting Ukraine to continue the war, and instead of supporting the peace efforts of Trump we have to find another way, which is more a track of war. It’s not good – it’s rather bad. And I think when Trump is coming up with any initiative with peace, I’m there.
There was an interesting speech yesterday of President Trump, some kind of reality shock for some of the listeners. He was alluding to the war in Ukraine. He was saying he was quite positive that a peace deal could be at hand. What do you know about it from your private conversation you might have had with the President these days?
The main obstacle of peace is Europe. So if the Europeans would not support the idea of Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians to continue the war and to win the war on the battlefield, now we would be in peace. So the difficulty is that there’s are challenging and rivalling concepts: one is Trump, and some other countries like Hungary, for peace; and there’s another concept and strategy of the Europeans – Brusselians – who said that “We would like to win that war on Russia”. And you know, nobody knows the answer how anybody, or any broad alliance, can win a war against a superpower of nuclear instruments and weapons as Russia. So to continue the war is the worst strategy I can imagine. Unfortunately, in Brussels we are doing exactly that.
We’re seeing in front of our eyes the crumbling of world order, the so-called rule-based order. The old times are over. You had a speech, a big speech at the beginning of this year in Budapest. You were calling it “the return of the nations, the era of the nation state”. Can you say something for smaller states such as Switzerland, or relatively smaller states such as Germany? What are the most important things one has to remember to survive in this new era of national interest, national powers and predators, and wars and conflicts?
Personal relations, collect friends and friendship, and make deals. This is the new world. So it’s not an aesthetic issue of aesthetics or philosophy: “What do you like, the more rule-based order, or more a deal-based order?” The fact is that the rule-based order failed: not able to solve any major problem of the human being on the earth – especially not in the Western Hemisphere. So there is no reason to continue. We have to do something else. And there’s only one rivalling idea – that’s the deal-based new order, created by Trump. So we have to find our place in these new surroundings. So it means negotiations, national interest, deals, connections. So this is, you know: don’t trust the rules, don’t trust any institution! Trust on your own capacity to make good deals with the others. Thank you.
Prime Minister, thanks a lot. All the best!
