Dániel Bohár: Prime Minister, let’s start our conversation by saying that Donald Trump is known to the public and the world as a very impulsive person. When you talk to Donald Trump one-on-one, what kind of person is he?
His energy level is high, and he’s impulsive and intuitive. So it’s a great experience for a veteran fighter like me, who’s used to constant bureaucratic negotiations and styles in Brussels, with the usual exception of the French president. Central Europe is different, but for someone like me who’s used to negotiating in the world of Brussels bureaucrats, among Westerners an American president like this is a great relief. And since we Hungarians are also impulsive, we think of ourselves as being intellectually up to speed, we think that Hungarians always come up with ideas. So we like partners like this.
Many people try to portray him as some kind of shallow clown, but that’s not true.
That’s what the left-wing global network tries to make people believe, and I have two answers to that. One is as an eyewitness: I’ve repeatedly negotiated with him there, I’ve sat there; and the President knows every issue in the depth necessary for decision-making, taking a well-considered position on these issues; and when he makes a proposal, it’s a proposal that’s been thought through to the last letter and reviewed in light of its consequences. So I’ve never heard a wild idea, comment or proposal from the American president. That’s one thing, the refutation of an eyewitness. But there’s another thing, there are the facts – which of course don’t trouble the leftists, but they’re still facts. What the current American president has achieved in ten months is unprecedented: it’s a world sensation! I can’t remember an American president – and I’ve known quite a few – who could have achieved such profound change in ten months, not only in the life of America, but in the entire Western cultural sphere. To be fair, the President has suffered to be able to have this opportunity. Well, he was able to achieve such tremendous results so quickly because he’d already had four years in government, during which time he’d been unable to achieve what he wanted because he was hindered by what’s known as the “deep state”, by international networks, by his enemies. And, of course, in his first term in office he’d won the election unexpectedly, and didn’t have the thousands of people at his disposal with whom he could have launched everything with the same momentum. Now when he returned, he came back fully armed – he knew everything, he knew everyone, and was fully prepared. I’ve talked to him a lot, about Hungarian government programmes, for example: what worked, what didn’t work, what was good, what could be transplanted, what could be used. And the results, if I look at the results of the American economy. And he’s got eight peace agreements done. Some of this was entirely thanks to him, and wouldn’t have happened without him, even if he didn’t personally handle everything on his own; but today there’s peace at eight crisis points around the world where earlier there was no peace. In contrast to the Europeans’ strategically misguided, warmongering policies, he alone represents a policy of peace, he alone keeps the hope of peace alive. We’d have fallen into a much deeper war abyss than we’re in now if he hadn’t regularly held back the Europeans and shifted the focus of the debates towards peace. Or, in the case of Hungary, we Hungarians have this definitive proof: the Biden administration introduced a number of bad decisions against Hungary; in ten months, the current US president has revoked, withdrawn, buried and eliminated these decisions. End of story! In just a few months he’s transformed Hungarian–American relations from hostility to alliance. And to him we weren’t the most important thing – he surely did the same with other countries. So, looking at the results, and politics is ultimately about results, I can say that I’ve never seen such an effective American president.
Let’s stay with the left-wing criticism. For several years now it’s been a mantra of the Left that the Hungarian government serves Russian interests and is Putin’s puppet. We’re familiar with these claims. Despite this, we’re now sending a large delegation to meet with the American president. Should we call this contradiction a lie? How would you resolve it?
That’s not my job. I’m enjoying this. I’m watching the leftists suffer like a dog that’s just given birth to ten puppies. Because, you see, up until now the story has been that what we’re doing serves Russian interests. But if we’re working with the Americans for the same cause, then perhaps it doesn’t serve Russian interests after all, but rather serves the universal interest, or the interest of the Hungarian people. In fact, perhaps the American president sees it the same way we do. So it’s difficult to label us as Trojan horses for both Moscow and Washington. And I see that liberal analysts and experts are suffering. The whole “Putin” mantra is a thing of the past. When you goes to Washington to negotiate, it’s ridiculous to be accused of serving Russian interests – it always has been, but now it’s definitely the case.
Energy and economic issues will also be discussed. I’d be interested to know when this will affect the everyday lives of Hungarian people, and in what way.
There’s a great danger that it will have an immediate impact at the end of November. The Americans have introduced sanctions with a deadline at the end of November which, if they remain as they are, for Hungary will mean petrol prices above 1,000 forints per litre and a huge increase in household energy bills. This must be averted; that’s the most important thing. There are other issues that may be more important in the long term, but here and now, in terms of our lives tomorrow, this is the most important issue. So there’s a danger that we need to avert. Another advantage that may arise from averting this danger is that American investments will arrive. Quite a few have already come this year, and if we can reach an agreement, more will come. We’re establishing military cooperation, so we’ll increase the country’s security level. And if we negotiate well, we’ll also be able to agree on nuclear energy for peaceful purposes, and bring American technology to Hungary. This will increase current efficiency and security levels.
Many people in Hungary are following our flight. Memes, posts, and so on have been created with both positive and negative messages. Why is this flight, this meeting, receiving such incredible attention, such media attention?
Probably everyone feels that this is significant. There’s no need to dwell on the negatives, because what could possibly be negative about Hungary sitting down to negotiate with the most powerful leader of the Western world, the most successful politician in the Western world today, as an ally, and seeking solutions that can only benefit the Hungarian people? What could be wrong with that? So anyone who looks for something wrong in this is just nitpicking. It’s not important. Those who are watching with an open mind – or even cheering – are doing so because they feel that, given the hostile relationship in previous years, because the Biden administration’s relationship with Hungary was hostile, there’s a chance that we can turn this into an alliance. I think that even if they don’t say it out loud, all Hungarians believe that it’s in Hungary’s interest and it’s the Hungarian government’s task to make friends for Hungary. Who are our friends? Our friends are those who have an interest in Hungary’s success. The more of them there are, the better. And in recent years we’ve gathered such countries. Such are the countries of Central Europe, the V4. Such are the peoples of the Turkic world and Central Asia. Such is China. Such are the Arab countries, with whom we’ve established good cooperation. Such are the Russians. And now the Americans are also among them. Good diplomacy is diplomacy that can make friends with all the major players in the world and involve them in its own success, so that these countries can see Hungary’s success as the result of their cooperation with us – and make it truly so. So I think this is why Hungarians are cheering, why they’re interested in whether this feat – this bringing together of all the world’s major powers, now including the Americans – will result in a panorama of countries that have a stake in Hungary’s success. No one except the Hungarians will consider Hungary to be the most important. So for us only Hungary is in first place. Everyone else puts their own country first, but while thinking about the interests of their own country, they think of Hungary as a cooperative partner that successfully supports their interests. This is the essence of diplomacy, this is the great feat – which is why it’s called an art. And if we succeed, then we can truly present a complete picture. With the exception of Brussels, there will be no significant opposition to Hungary’s intentions, no power centre in the world that has an interest in Hungary’s failure. Brussels still needs to be dealt with, but that’s another story, and another interview.
