We are happy to come to an agreement with the Ukrainians on many things, but we will never agree with anyone under the burden, the weight of blackmail, we will reject all blackmail, Prime Minister Viktor Orbán stated at the anti-war rally of the Digital Civic Circles in Debrecen on Saturday.
The Prime Minister was asked about the Druzhba crude oil pipeline as part of an extraordinary ‘Lázárinfó’ press conference held in the Főnix Arena in Debrecen. The Prime Minister said the same as the Ukrainians, he himself has a plan about how to ward off the present blackmail. “My plan is better; therefore, in the end, the Ukrainians will run out of money before we run out of oil,” he added. We will defeat them, he laid down, stressing that he does not expect an apology, it is enough if they reopen the pipeline.
Mr Orbán also said he is not looking for trouble with the Ukrainians, they have enough problems as it is on the eastern front, they are looking for trouble. Instead of fighting against the Russians, now that they so decided, they have opened a conflict with us in a westerly direction, he pointed out. They cannot have seriously believed that they block Hungary’s oil supply, and “we’ll just sit idly by,” he said.
He also pointed out that the agreements concluded with the US and Russian presidents constituted a pre-condition of cheap household energy bills. If we do not have these, then there is no cheap gas and household energy, he laid down. The government of the day must deliver this, the Hungarian prime minister of the day must make arrangements for this as otherwise there is trouble, he stressed.
He said a Hungarian family pays HUF 250,000 a year on average for household energy, a Polish family pays HUF 900,000, while a Czech family a million. If there was no reduction of household energy bills in Hungary, a monthly salary would be missing from the budget of every family, he observed.
Both the oil blockade and the gas blockade are jeopardising this, he said, recalling that the Ukrainians already imposed a gas blockade on Hungary once before, during the Crimean war. He highlighted: they knew that this threat existed, and so they built, nice and quiet, a southern bypass pipeline, and as a result, they are able to bring cheap Russian gas to Hungary from Russia, bypassing Ukraine, from a southerly direction, and to pass it on to the people at subsidised prices. If it had depended on Zelenskyy, this would not be the case, he laid down.
The Prime Minister was asked about the Ukrainian cash transport vehicles detained in the territory of Hungary. Mr Orbán said they themselves only have questions in connection with the incident as they do not even know whether this money “was taken somewhere” or “brought here.” “All we want to know is what the Ukrainians are doing with this inordinate amount of cash in Hungary,” he stressed.
He regarded the incident as suspicious, and said the Hungarians have a firm opinion about every neighbouring nation, and he suspects what the Hungarians think of the Ukrainians. Compared with this, he is surprised to see that there is “pro-Ukraine party created from nothing” in Hungary which pushes on, is fully operational and has no financial difficulties, and there are a great many pro-Ukraine media workers, a great many pro-Ukraine influencers addressing the public.
“I think – if I know my own country well – this is a higher percentage than there is in the country itself in actual fact. And I suspect that many pro-Ukraine voices in Hungary are only partially sincere and are partially coming from the heart, while the rest are coming from pockets, and I want to know how the money lands in those pockets. We only have questions, but we will look for the answers to all the questions, and we’ll find them,” he said.
At the same time, he stated: the Ukrainians must understand that “they can’t take us for fools,” and it is definitely out of the question that while they are imposing an oil blockade on Hungary, we should be sitting idly by, just looking around. He described the government side as “not being people of discord,” they do not look for conflicts, do not threaten anyone, but have a firm idea about the lives of the Hungarians. He said the Hungarian nation is one of the greatest that has ever come into being in the history of human society. At the same time, he took the view that the Hungarians “have been allocated a windy place” in the world. “There is always a trowel in one hand and a sword in the other. We use whichever we have to, but if we have to choose, we always choose the trowel,” he said.
Regarding the Ukrainian president’s threat levelled at him, Mr Orbán said “things like that don’t make you happy.” But, he said in continuation, when one agrees to lead a national community as a calling, it is best to sort everything out within oneself right at the beginning “in order not to come up against surprises.”
As to how he endures psychologically that President Zelenskyy is threatening him and blackmailing Hungary and also him personally, he said he does not appeal to anyone’s sympathy because he is doing a job which he must take care of and is able to take care of. He observed: he has the feeling that he has inexhaustible resources. “I’m a Duracell prime minister.”
Mr Orbán said the community of Fidesz, in which country, family and love for each other are present all at once, is a love community. There are many on the other side, too, he said in continuation, but that is a hatred community, and you cannot build a nation, a country and the future on hatred. This election is about whether we should build our future on hatred or love, he stated.
Answering the question of a Fidesz activist from Szeklerland, he highlighted that the only item of the Democratic Coalition’s programme was to take the franchise away from Hungarians beyond the borders which was a peculiar part of hatred policy. They want to exclude the Transylvanians from the nation, he said, stressing that Fidesz will not allow this to happen. “You are important not only because you exist, but because we know precisely that the nation is more or less like bread,” as time goes by, the inside becomes crumblier and it is the heel that keeps it together. “We need the Hungarians from beyond the borders,” the Prime Minister laid down.
In answer to a question, Mr Orbán said, at this moment, Ukraine is dying. There is no way of knowing how many millions have left our eastern neighbour, where its eastern borders lie, and meanwhile, every week, they are losing thousands as dead or disabled which is an annual loss of 400,000.
We do not know what the future of Ukraine will be, whether it will survive at all, he observed, adding that if it does, we will then have to decide what to do with it.
He also said that if we admit a country at war to the European Union, by doing so we bring the conflict into the community. Additionally, if they enter, “all of Hungary’s money will go to Ukraine,” in fact, it will be necessary to increase our contributions. By contrast, the Prime Minister spoke about the need for a strategic alliance that is not on a par with membership, as part of which it would be possible to support the Ukrainian economy in a way that can be reconciled with our best interests.
Regarding Ukraine’s EU accession, he said “they didn’t much put me in the mood for it.” He described Brussels’ duplicity and the doubled standards applied vis-à-vis Hungary – that they support an external country against a Member State – as a birth defect.
Mr Orbán pointed out that the elderly might have concerns about both the past and the future, mentioning that in a single day in the summer of 1944, 130 US planes dropped a thousand bombs on Debrecen with 2,000 dead in consequence, and this attack was followed by another five such operations. We must understand the elderly, that they are worried when they hear the word ‘war,’ he stated, adding, addressing them, that the civic, patriotic, Christian government is on the side of peace, and will not allow Hungarian weapons or young people to be taken to Ukraine. He mentioned that the elderly “didn’t work hard all their lives just so that someone should come along and destroy everything they’ve built with much hard work,” adding that the Member States of the EU agreed to guarantee the latest loan of EUR 90 billion given to Ukraine.
There are on the table a Ukrainian welfare programme worth USD 800 billion as well as an armament programme worth USD 700 billion. This money can only be raised from credit. “Who will repay it? Our children and grandchildren,” the Prime Minister laid down.
If we allow Hungary to be dragged into the war and we give them our money, the country will become impoverished in the future, and the elderly will have worked hard in vain, they will have left a chance to their children in vain, the country’s indebtedness will destroy the lives of our children and grandchildren. Therefore, the next government must not be pro-Ukraine, the next prime minister must not be pro-Ukraine. “As long as you see me, don’t be afraid,” Mr Orbán relayed the message to the elderly.
There are and will be flames all around us, Europe will go to war, they are wandering, marching ever more deeply into this war, and yet, it will be possible for Hungary to stay out of this war and to have calm, peace and construction here at home, Mr Orbán stated, indicating that this can be achieved through a large support base.
Answering another question, Mr Orbán stressed that the difference between the western Brent-type oil and the Russian Urals-type oil was around USD 20 per barrel. When “Shell employees calling themselves energy experts” say that this has no relevance to the price, then either they are not telling the truth or do not know what they are talking about, he observed. We must win this struggle with the Ukrainians on the issue of the reopening of the oil pipeline, Mr Orbán laid down.
The Prime Minister stressed that for us this was an existential issue. Mr Orbán said he is absolutely certain that the plan, according to which we are proceeding will lead to a result. Perhaps, already before the elections, he observed. He also said that he checks the level of our reserves and prices every day, and the moment prices reach the level in Hungary, due to the world market, which the people can no longer afford or which would frustrate the economy, they will intervene.
“We have a dossier, it says on it ‘capped maximum price,’ and if necessary, we’ll open it. It’s not a good thing, it causes disruption, it’s a sensitive tool, but if we have no choice, we’ll use it. And then we’ll also mobilise the country’s national petrol reserves,” he indicated.
According to Mr Orbán, we cannot rule out the possibility that gas supply, too, may be disrupted in Hungary. He said oil pipelines only come to Hungary from two directions, the main pipeline is Druzhba, and there is a supplementary one from the South. However, as regards gas, we are doing better because in recent years, we have managed to build gas pipelines in every direction with the exception of Slovenia. Meaning that we will not have a gas supply problem, but we may have a price problem, he pointed out.
The Prime Minister said what gives us security and cheap gas is that we bring up gas via the chain called South Stream, and therefore, we must be in continual contact with all the countries that are South of us and must engage in security consultations with them, given that anyone who was bold enough to blow up the Nord Stream owned by the Germans is capable of performing the same feat in the South. The Ukrainians are capable of anything, and also have the capabilities, the Prime Minister stressed.
Meaning that we must pay attention not only to the energy facilities situated in the territory of Hungary, but also to the pipeline system located South of us, he highlighted.
In answer to a question relating to the possible shutting down of the electricity transported from Hungary to Ukraine, the Prime Minister did not rule taking this step out. He indicated at the same time that so far this had not happened because there were Hungarians living on the other side of the border as well.
On the other hand, “our enemies are not the Ukrainian people, but the leaders who turn Ukraine against us, meaning that we only want to take steps in the end that won’t hurt the people.” He added: if possible he would avoid taking steps that could directly harm the Hungarian and Ukrainian people living in Ukraine.
Regarding the purchase of a Hungarian state port on the Croatian coast, he said they could have done this better and faster as at present, a lengthy EU authorisation procedure is under way, and so the site is currently not suitable for receiving any goods.
In connection with the Paks 2 project, the Prime Minister said a great many actors within the Hungarian Parliament as well as “moles built into the deep state” had hindered the government in this endeavour, despite the fact that if the project were ready, it would be able to take care of 60 to 70 per cent of Hungary’s power supply. He added: if we do our job well, then by 2032-2033 this situation will be resolved, but there are another six years until then.
“As they said in the communist regime, we know what there will be, but what will there be until then?” he observed.
Mr Orbán was asked whether he wanted to play Zelenskyy’s threatening sentences in the European Parliament and to talk about the crimes committed in Hungary by two Members of the European Parliament, the left-wing Ilaria Salis and Péter Magyar. The Prime Minister replied: they must be cautious in taking the affairs of the Hungarians abroad because he does not want Hungary to be known in the European Union for the fact that Zelenskyy spoke such nonsense and that the electors sent people of such quality from Hungary to the European Parliament as deputies.
“I don’t want to feel ashamed in the European Union, I want to be proud of Hungary, so I would suggest plans, proposals instead, rather than “exposing the workshop secrets of our own laundry.”
He also said he does not know what to do with the situation if someone gets mortally upset with him for appointing his wife as justice minister, and not him. However, it is not appropriate to talk before the European Parliament about the fact that someone organises a party out of resentment and hatred in order to disrupt life in Hungary.
Even those who do not vote for us find themselves better-off with us, we lead the country not on a party, but on a national basis, he stated. Mr Orbán said they hope to get past the elections with a confident victory and then it will be revealed that “at the end of the day, we are all Hungarians.” Therefore, he said it is important that when they pursue the government’s policies, they should see it as a virtue, not as a problem, that what they do is also good for those who do not vote for them.
“Tisza pensioners receive the fourteenth monthly pension as well, Tisza families, too, receive the doubled amount of the tax benefit available in relation to children, also if they abuse us in the meantime, and everyone is entitled to the lifelong tax exemption for mothers, even if they are Tisza supporters,” he laid down, adding that the fixed 3 per cent first-home credit facility is good not only for right-wing young people, but also for young people who support Tisza.
He promised: once the elections are over and the civic, patriotic government is formed, “we will have to be a generous government standing on national foundations as we have been so far.”
In response to another question, he said Hungary’s weight on the international scene depends on two factors: one of them is its actual weight, meaning the size of its economy, its army, while the other one is its political capabilities. We need a government which is able to gather as many friends in the world as possible, he laid down.
He indicated that he tried to gather friends from China all the way to the United States, and to motivate each of them to have at least a little interest in Hungary’s success and to prevent anyone from being counter-interested. If we achieve that, then the country is safely fenced off, they can start working, we have no enemies from outside, and should the need arise, we have friends, he added, observing that today our strength is enough for that, and that is not to be underestimated.
In answer to another question, he said they made relatively good progress until 2020, but then Covid fell in, followed by the war. The four wartime years behind us have taken their toll on the country both psychologically and economically.
He promised to continue the projects put to one side for the time being once there is enough money, but in order to be able to do so, the Hungarian economy must first switch to a higher gear and we need more favourable peacetime circumstances.
Mr Orbán also spoke about the fact that with the plant developments currently under way, “Debrecen struck it lucky,” those will take care of the future for 25 years because there will be jobs. He observed: in Hungary, there are environmental norms just as stringent as in Germany. “Don’t believe those who claim otherwise, and we observe them.”
Addressing the people of Debrecen, he said if there is a civic, patriotic Fidesz government, Debrecen will always have a tailwind. He added: the reason being that in the major student movements that started in 1985, before the establishment of Fidesz, in addition to Budapest, they had two robust support bases: the students of Szombathely in the West and the students of Debrecen in the East. This then turned into a marriage between Debrecen and Fidesz in 1998.
He highlighted that there was no other city in the country, though others had grown as well, which had grown as much as Debrecen and its vicinity. They have taken a step forward by not one, but two magnitudes. It is a fantastic place, full of vitality, and this vitality must also be demonstrated in the elections, lest those should win who will then explain what cannot be done and why and will turn Debrecen back into the past where it came from, the state of under-development which it was in in 1998, Mr Orbán laid down.
