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Stephan Magnet: Ich spreche jetzt mit den Ungarisch Ministerpräsident Viktor Orbán. Mr. Orbán, Prime Minister, thank you for joining us.
It’s was privilege. Thank you very much.
The viewers of our television station, AUF1, know very well that the European Union wants a globalist transformation and that you are therefore under attack. Mr. Orbán you have said in recent days that there’s a conspiration against Hungary by the EU. What do you mean by that?
So if you have a look at what’s going on in Brussels, you can say that they try to circumvent the sovereign rights of the member states and they try to build up a rather globalist structure of the European Union. On the other side, there are some countries who don’t like or does not like that and would like to maintain their sovereignty, and would not like to give up no more any rights to the Brusselian bureaucracy. So we are rather suspicious to the bureaucracy, the bubble of Brussels who is not serving the members’ national interest, but rather represent their own globalist interest in the Brussels. So that’s how we have seen the last several years. So therefore we have to resist to that. And what is the answer of that kind of criticism from Brussels? So they say that it is our interest that in all countries belonging to the European Union, we should have those governments who accept the kind of globalist building centralist process of the bureaucrats in Brussels. So therefore it’s not a conspiracy because conspiracy is secret. It’s public. So they said, look at what has happened with Poland. The last Polish election, they clearly said the EPP, which is the governing party in Brussels, and even the Commission, that they would like to see a change of the government in Poland. And they even said that they are not ready to give the money which belonged to Poland, to the government, to the conservative government, but they promised if the Polish will vote properly and change the government of conservatives to a liberal one, a Brussel-critical pro sovereign government, instead of that they are ready to vote for the liberal pro-Brusselian government, they will get all the money. You know, what is that? It’s blackmailing, and it’s interference into the national decision making, we can say conspiracy, but if it is conspiracy, a public conspiracy, which is a well known policy of the Brusselian bureaucrats. And exactly the same thing is going on in Hungary. They have done exactly the same in 2002 and they tried to do it again in 2026 when the new election will come. So we know that practice very well. What I have said is nothing new, it’s just simple description of the situation in Brussels.
In Western Europe, citizens are looking hopefully to Hungary. The cityscape of Budapest is not flooded with migrants and leading politicians are fighting for their country as patriots. Is this the reason why the globalists want to get rid of you? Must the alternative to the globalist EU be eliminated?
I think they have two difficulties with Hungary. First is that if you look at what’s going on in Europe you can describe the European continent as a liberal ocean, or a progressive liberal ocean. And what is Hungary? Hungary is an island, an island of difference. We don’t know exactly what, you can say conservative, Christian, national, it’s not easy to define, but definitely it’s not part of the liberal ocean. It’s something national, you know, defending the sovereignty. So it’s an island. And this island exists, just by itself is a danger to the ocean, because it means that there are not only the ocean but there are islands. If there is one island that could be another one, the third one and the fourth one, so you know. As an example, Hungary, Hungary is not a big country, we have more poor than you are, I mean Austria, our army is not big, the GDP figure is not, you know outstanding, so we are not powerful. But we do something differently than the Brusselian bureaucrats would like to do. So therefore we are an example which is considered in Brussels as a danger, but which is totally unfair and fake because we are not dangerous, we are just representing an alternative. And democracy is about the race between alternatives, thinking about societies, organizing the societies in different ways. So that’s democracy. It’s a good competition. But in Brussels, they would not like to see competition at all. The island of difference, Hungary is dangerous for them. That’s the first. But second, which is even more dangerous for them that we are successful. If you look at, let’s say, migration, we don’t have migrants, which means no terrorist danger. Crime rate is going down, because migration is always related to crime making and terrorist attack as well. Migration means higher level of antisemitis, what we don’t have in Hungary. It means homophobia, which we don’t have in Hungary, migrants also raised the danger of not treating equally the women, you know, which Hungary insisted to be treated equally. So Hungary is a success story because certain values are far better defended in Hungary than in the liberal countries. That’s first. Second, we are successful economically. So therefore, we are not just an alternative, but we are a successful alternative. That’s that problem anyway.
Globalists and elites or freedom and sovereignty, where’s the front line in this great battle in the Western world?
I think we have to understand that probably the structure of the European politics or the Western politics is changing now. Previously it was easy to describe the political landscape by saying left, right, middle, middle-right, center-left, whatsoever. But I think that kind of categories do not work anymore because now there are three questions which basically restructure the political life in Europe, in your country, Austria, in Hungary and even in Brussels. The first one is war or peace, that’s Ukrainian war, the Russian war against Ukraine. Second, migration, pro or against the migration. And third, pro-family or just, you know, multicultural gender approach to the families. So these are the three main questions which basically reorganize the political spectrum. So surprisingly you can find earlier leftists, considered leftist parties who are pro-peace, against migration and pro-family and against gender, but they are traditional leftist. We are rightist but we have the same program. So now it’s an evidence that now left and right is not the proper way to describe the situation. So there is a, what we call, I would not like to insult the others, but there is what we call the normality and something strange on the other side. You know? So this is the new structure and that’s totally reconfigurated the whole European politics. That’s how we created the Patriots Party now in the European Parliament, and these are the developments which will be decisive in the forthcoming years. These remain the main issues in the European politics and not ideological issue as it was for 100 years left or right. So there is a new middle and there’s a new majority around FPÖ here in Austria, around Hungary, around Fidesz in Hungary, around Marine Le Pen in France, around Meloni and Salvini in Italy. So new majority and new middle are just under formation in the European societies. That’s how I see the landscape.
And will we see a decision soon? Will it be decided now what Europe will look like in 10 or 20 years?
You are in trouble, may I say, I mean, those countries who let high number of migrants come in. Because migration is changing, reforming the future of your societies, especially the number of the kids in the migration families are higher than the old traditional European families. So there’s a constant change. So those countries who let high number of migrants to come in, now face a challenge how to live together. But there are other countries, other type of countries in Europe, like Hungary, who never let the migrants come in. So now we don’t have that problem. Our problem is how to defend the borderline and how not to let them in. It’s a different challenge than yours. So I think the future of your societies, migrant influenced societies will be different even now, but it will be more different in ten years’ time than those countries who are still not migrant countries like Hungary. So probably what we will see in the future is not one Europe but two different kind of societies in the same continent.
We will come back to migration. But the other question, Donald Trump only just survived an assassination attempt by the deep state. So did you, your Slovakian counterpart Robert Fico and Elon Musk is marked as a target by Western media, your name is also on the relevant death list. Are you still flying by helicopter? Have you raised your security level?
Hungary is a small country, so we don’t need to have helicopters. What I’m doing to use my car and if I’m traveling abroad I use the flight. Yeah, sometimes the level of security is raised. When the assassination attempt happened in Slovakia against Robert Fico, who is a great friend of the Hungarians anyway, so we respect him very much, immediately we raised the security level around me and around the politicians in Hungary as well. Now it’s more down. So we follow the international tendencies, but it’s true that the hate is mainly created by the left, leftist politicians and leftist media who single out certain persons and try to describe them as debils and generate hate against them. We should be not surprised when we see that as a consequence of that hate creation, some physical violence, even assassination attempts happening like in the United States or in Slovakia. It’s the result of the leftist hate created liberal media accusations and policy. It’s bad. So they should change and should come back to the normal way of discussion. That would be better for everybody, especially for me, if I may be selfish on that subject.
A few days ago, you recalled the Hungarian struggle for freedom in 1956. You said 1956 was a fight for freedom, Hungary’s fight for freedom against the world empire, just like in 1456 against the Turkish siege, the battle of David against Goliath. And you say today we are fighting for freedom against the empire of the European Union. Will Davids be able to win?
Always. That’s my experience. You know, in 2022 that was the same, the Goliath from Brussels and even from Washington, because the democrat government and Brussels together don’t like the non-liberal governments here in Europe. So they were against us, but finally the people decided on their own opinion, and we won. So it’s a kind of battle, not the Hungary and governing party against Brussels, but it’s a fight of the Hungarian people to maintain their right for their own sovereign decision, how they would like to form the country, how they would like to form the government, what kind of life they would like to live. We would not like to let anybody else to interfere into that even not Brussels, even if it is a Goliath, which is, believe me, it’s a Goliath. It’s difficult to fight against them. But finally, David is on the winning side. At least this is the Hungarian lesson. And I hope that FPÖ will demonstrate that here in Austria as well. Great friend of mine. I’m very much with them. And I hope that President Kickl sooner or later will get the chance to form the government, even if now, surprisingly, which would be not thinkable, imaginable in Hungary, you know, the winner party has no chance to form the government, which is the case today. But I hope you will come back to the normal track of democracy when the winner party has a chance at least to negotiate in order to form a government. And it’s not my job to interfere into the Austrian politics but that would not, it would be impossible even to imagine in Hungary that you win the election, and somebody can simply deny the chance of you to form a government. So I’m sure that not only we as Hungarian Davids, but you as the Austrian David will win the election soon.
What can the FPÖ learn from Hungary and from you? I ask this question because it also took you a long time to finally come into power in 2010 and after all, you have been in power for almost 15 years without interruption.
First of all, all in all, the years as Prime Minister I had is 18 years. Wow(?). It’s extremely demanding and long. But don’t forget at the same time, I was the leader of the opposition for 16 years. So I’m not just a record holder of being of Prime Minister, but I’m a record holder of being the leader of the opposition. So I know both sides of democracy, opposition and government as well. And what is my experience of that is, what I can offer as an advice to my friends in FPÖ: keep fighting, never give it up. Sometimes the sky is dark, but sooner or later the Sun will come up and will rise. So never give it up. Even I spent years and years and years in opposition. We haven’t made any compromise on our ideas. And finally, the people who respected that. So if you are persistent and keep the line, sooner or later you will get a chance to serve your nation as a government as well.
Let’s come back to the migration. From the left and the World Economic Forum in Davos, the corresponding orders are being issued, wokeness, LGBTQ, homo propaganda instead of help for families and more and more migration. Critics call this a plan to abolish white Europeans. Are all these measures connected?
Difficult question, but it’s true that the gender ideology is getting stronger and stronger even in Brussels. But I think the gender issue does not belong to the European politics. Gender issue is belonging exclusively to the nations because we are not the same. There are some countries who would like to regulate marriage and raising their kids in one way and other societies would like to regulate in a different way. So Brussels has nothing to do with that. It’s not a European issue. Unfortunately, now the lobby of gender in Brusselss is so strong that they lifted up that kind of national issue to the Brusselian European level which is totally bad, false, fake, they should not do that and let the societies of the European continent to manage the way of life as they wish so, because we have different histories, we have different spiritual characters, the Christianity is in different shape in many countries, the impact of the original Christian ideas and values is not the same in one corner and the other one of the European continent. So let’s leave free the member states of European Union in terms of gender and don’t interfere. That’s my point on that.
But what do you think? Why is this a big exchange? Why is this great replacement? You reacted quickly at asylum crisis in 2015 and immediately built the border fence. Why is this exchange?
You know, in Hungary in 2015 as well there’s a lot of discussion how to react on migration because that was a totally new development in the Hungarian history. We have never had that. We were evaded by armies. So we know what is it when the Ottomans are coming or the Russians are coming but that was a totally new development, unarmed army arrived at the border of Hungary. How to react on that? Positively, negatively, plus it was obvious that that intention is not to stay in Hungary because they would like to go to Austria or rather to Germany. So what would be the good reaction on behalf of the Hungarian society? Big discussion we have had on that. But there was one point as an outcome of that discussion that we belong to Schengen. Schengen means that we have an outside border and those who are inside the Schengen area has a composery to maintain the security and defense of the border. So therefore, it’s not just a composery of the Hungarian army to defend Hungary, but at the same time to defend Europe. So we decided even if the migrants would like to go to Germany, we stopped them and we said, Guys, unfortunately you can’t go in Hungary and to Germany because it’s a Schengen border. So that was the first. Second, on the value issues, you know, I met many, many nice men and women who are involved into various program of helping the poor and sometimes migrants and those persons who had to escape from their homeland, so they are involved into character activity. And I asked their opinion, how do you see the situation? They said, it has nothing to do with character activity. These guys are healthy, these guys are in a totally good physical shape. There are some very few number of ladies, anyway, it’s basically men, these look like an army and they would not like to escape from their own country, but they are looking for a better life first for themselves and then for their families, because later on they will bring their families. And even that kind of civic organization, Hungary said: Government be careful with that. It’s not a classical problem of people in difficult situations, it’s something different, it’s an invasion, so react in a proper way. So that was not just the opinion of the political leaders like me, but even those opinions who has a knowledge from the ground how this activity looks like. And it was obvious that it’s not a migration issue. It’s not a political refugee issue. It’s not a refugee, it’s even not migration, it’s an invasion. And we said that if it is an invasion, we can’t give up our country, so stop them. So long discussion, it was not an easy decision because it started somewhere in the end of springtime or summertime and to make the order to bring the fence took at least two or three months because of a lot of discussions. So to build the fence, it was not just a decision of mine. It was an outcome of the nationwide political dispute about how Hungary should behave in this peculiar situation.
But you don’t like this politics and the European Court of Justice has fined Hungary 200 million Euros for its asylum policy. The grace period ends these days. What do you think of these fines and will Hungary give in?
So this is a shame anyway, shame on them, I mean. So we defend the Europeans, we defend Austria, Germany. We defend all the member states of the European Union. We spent already 2 billion euros after 2015 till now 2 billion euros to defend the border because it’s fence, technology, soldiers, border gards. So it’s a very complicated operation and very expensive. So we spent 2 billion euro and now the European Court, because of the activity of the commission, because it was initiated, this legal case was initiated by the Commission, it’s not what I’m angry is not about the Court, it’s not the Commission, now the Commission initiates to penalize Hungary because we defend the border exactly as it is written in the Schengen Treaty. And we have to pay 200 million euro now and per day, per day 1 million euro. But you know, I will never fulfill that kind of decision because that would be against the interest of the country, plus, it would be obviously against the constitution because the constitution say that I have to defend the country. That’s the compulsory of the government. Plus, don’t forget that they just recently accepted the migration pact. We voted against, but unfortunately we were not strong enough, not sufficient number of countries voted against it. So now we have the migration pact. Migration pact says that in Hungary, we have to build up labor camps of a kind of migration camps, yeah? Migration camps for several tens of thousands. So I should let them in and keep them in a camp, you know, in a migration camp. Nobody in Hungary would like to have migration camp. So now we are in a confrontational situation and I just try to convince the European Union that look, now everybody is in rebellion against the Commission. The Germans suspended the regulation of Schengen and they control the border. All states do the same thing. Poland just proclaimed that they are not ready to follow the regulation of the migration pact. So everybody is in the revolution, the rebellion against the commission and the stupid regulations. So I hope that we can convince the Commission to change the regulation and in that way Hungary would be get out of the trap where we are. So we are punished because we fulfill our compulsory commitments. Crazy, shameful.
International globalists such as George Soros are asking for millions of migrants and pushing for regime change, including in the EU. You have repeatedly criticized George Soros and as a result, the Soros Foundation left Hungary and the Soros University went from Budapest to Vienna.
Congratulations. Good luck.
Yes, and everyone is very happy about it. But anyone who criticizes Soros in Austria or in Germany is attacked by the mainstream media. Was hard to inform the Hungarian public about the role of globalists like John Soros?
Of course, that’s another story, a long story, you know. George Church is a Hungarian guy, quite respected one, because he’s very rich and he proved to be a very talented businessman. Probably he is the first or second richest Hungarian man of the Globe. So it’s a talented Hungarian man who has a Jewish background anyway. So when we criticize him, we are immediately accused as being anti-Semite. But you know, it has nothing to do with his origin. It’s about what he’s thinking and what he’s doing, which is a free ground for discussion. You can’t say that when everybody is criticizing you or having a discussion, you say no, you are anti-Semite. This does not work. But this is the technology they regularly use. They did it in Hungary, but the Hungarian people said, we are fed up with that, let’s concentrate on the matter. We are not interested in who is who, what kind of origin, let’s discuss what is it about. Oh, it’s migration. And George Soros just said when we raised the fence that he would like to bring annually, every year one million migrants to the European Union. So he is a man who is financing and advocating and run propaganda in favor of the migration which will change the cultural identity of the European continent. We don’t like it. Okay, you can do it in Austria or Germany, it’s not belong to us, it’s going to Austrians or the Germans or the French. But in Hungary, you simply cannot do that because we Hungarians decided the only country in the world which decided by referendum on the migration issue, we decided not to open the country to the migrants. And nobody else, nobody even George Soros cannot change the decision of the Hungarian people. That’s democracy. So that’s the reason why George Soros and Hungary, George Soros and me cannot be called as the greatest friend at this moment.
In the interview with Tucker Carlson last year you said that peace in Ukraine will only be possible with Trump. You literally said: call back Trump. In a few days, the USA will be voting. Are you rooting for Donald Trump?
We have to wait five more days only. I think unfortunately we Europeans were simply not able to stop that war. We Europeans were not able to reach a ceasefire. We Europeans were not able to formulate a peace policy. That’s the case. So we need somebody else who can do it. The Chinese tried, they have their own peace plan together with the Brazilians, but it was not influential enough to have a result. But now in the Western Hemisphere, hopefully Trump is back. He will immediately act in favor of a ceasefire and then we can reduce to zero the expanding of the war. Peace is a complicated issue how to negotiate long term peace and so on. But what we need immediately to reduce the chance of expanding of the war even to other countries. And the only way to stop it is ceasefire. So I’m very confident that Donald Trump, the new, the old-new president of United States will able to reach a ceasefire soon. I still believe on that.
You still hold the presidency of the European Council until the end of this year. You have already undertaken a peace mission to Donald Trump, but also to Zelensky and Putin. How will you use the last two months?
Okay, so that peace mission was a difficult one, may I say. I was aware that if I will do that immediately I will be criticized by the progressive liberals and the European Commission, the head of the European Commission, and the Brusselian bureaucrats in the bubbles, everybody will turn against me. But I’m a Christian guy. I don’t speak about it too much, but if you are a Christian guy and you get the possibility to do something in favor of peace, which is a good thing, I think you have to do it. Whatever is the reaction of that. So my motivation was, you know, Hungary is a country which is interested in peace. Hungary would like to peace. Christians would like to peace everywhere in the world. Why don’t we use this new possibility as rotating presidency of European Union to do something in favor of that? That was obvious. So, what was my plan? First I went to Zelensky and then to Putin. And I try to understand is there any chance to make as a mediator a piece? Answer: no. And the reason is that both leaders think that the time is on their side. The Ukrainians, at that time it was in July, they believed, now it’s over, they lost, but at that time they believed that they can win and the Russians were convinced that they can win. So, then I went to Beijing to see the Chinese president. Then I went to Washington to the NATO summit and then to Donald Trump. And I tried to convince everybody and I wrote a report to the older prime ministers of the European Union and I said that if he would like to have a ceasefire and make some step to the direction of peace, we have to create an international surrounding because the two warring parties will not make peace just by themselves. So we have to have a context around them which push them towards the ceasefire and peace. And we have to cooperate, that was my written proposal to the European Union, we have to cooperate with the Chinese and then we have to communicate to Zelensky and to Putin and create a climate when they realize that sooner or later they have to have a position which at least a ceasefire and which is a precondition to negotiate on peace. So I tried to create that surrounding. But I was not successful on that because the European Union rejected it. The Chinese said okay, the European Union said no way, because they would like to continue to war and they would like to defeat Russia. This is the European position, they would like to defeat Russia. And then the only option, which is still open, to hope that Donald Trump is back, this is a new chapter in the Western politics and then try to cooperate peaceful guys like we are, some of us in Europe with the Americans and to create a ceasefire in the Ukrainian–Russian war. So that will be another complicated two months ahead of us.
My last question today is about media freedom. You have been accused of abolishing media freedom in Hungary. As the head of AUF1 TV here I have to say, here in Germany and Austria we are being brutally attacked because we don’t make globalist propaganda. Eight of our bank accounts were closed and we had to flee to your country, Hungary, to open our(?) nation account in Budapest. Censorship on the same scale as in the West does not take place in Hungary either. But it does here. Our big Facebook account was deleted just yesterday, just like this. What do you think about media censorship in Germany and Austria?
Okay. So, without insulting the authorities of Germany or Austria, what I can say is my personal experience. Let’s say 25 years ago, 30 years ago, if I open up Fraufuter Allegemeine on one side, and I leftist paper on the Süddeutsche Zeitung on the other one, it was two different opinions on the same subject. So there was a conservative and that was a liberal, let’s say, approach and understanding. After 25 years now, if I do the same thing to open one and the other one, the main point on the important issues are exactly the same. That’s what I see. It’s not my job to make any judgment on that, but now I see that the different opinions simply disappeared and on the major issues there is a full coincide positions of the journalist and papers. So, and what I see at the same time, that everybody who is not inside this kind of court, this kind of territory, the mainstream territory, who is just outside of that does not exist or they try to push them not to exist. In Germany even it could happen that the party which is elected by the people can be under constant surveillance of the secret service. Okay, probably it’s possible because of the German constitution, but in Hungary, you know, that would be a reason for revolution. So what is going on in the Western societies is a different perceive and different perception of democracy, speech of freedom, freedom of speech, media freedom and all that kind of thing. So now the meaning is somehow changing. And we became, and looking like more and more old fashioned guys who still believe that there is no democracy without freedom of press, which can create different opinions, which can create discussions and debates to make, to offer a possibility for the people to make their own opinion and to make their own decision. So we are still that kind of old fashioned country in Hungary, all in all, approximately, at the public sphere, 50 percent of the opinions are let’s say liberal and other 50 is conservative, like 30 years ago it was in the Western societies. So we still have that kind of rivaling concept of understanding of the World, event and development. That’s the reason why Hungary is land of freedom as the bank account story of your media is just showing clearly.
Prime Minister, Mr. Orbán, thank you very much for this interview.
That was my pleasure. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
