Ferenc Szabó: I’d like to extend a warm welcome to the viewers of Karcag Television. I’m confident that in the coming minutes you’ll see and hear an interesting conversation, as I have a very special guest sitting here with me in the studio. It is with great warmth and appreciation that I welcome to our studio Viktor Orbán, Prime Minister of Hungary. Welcome!
Hello, thank you for inviting me. I’m delighted to be here.
Thank you for accepting our invitation, Prime Minister. Something very important happened today in the life of Jász–Nagykun–Szolnok County: the opening of a 36-kilometre section of the M4 motorway between Karcag and Törökszentmiklós. What benefits will this bring to the county?
The problem with the Great Hungarian Plain was that it was bypassed by motorways and expressways. Then this was solved in the north, when Jászság was connected to the country’s transport network via the M3 motorway, and then Békéscsaba was also connected via Kecskemét. There’s still a missing section there, which is now being built, but there’s always been this isolated or closed-off area between the two, where you live – and, of course, only the M4 can provide a solution here. This is why the development of the M4, which the people of Szolnok also needed, has always been at the heart of our Great Plain programme. We’ve also built the section from the Romanian border to Berettyóújfalu, which is now complete, and the section between Berettyóújfalu and Szolnok was left, and then we built it to Törökszentmiklós. And now we’re done from Törökszentmiklós to Kisújszállás, or to Karcag, as you say, because for you everything here is Karcag – and even Kisújszállás is Karcag. So now we’re complete as far as Karcag. Now we still have to build in Karcag, and we’ll also build a bypass, because otherwise traffic will go through the town. We’ll continue building the road to Berettyóújfalu, which is another sixty kilometres that’s missing; and then we’ll be at the border. This will mean restoration of the historical order that was known and understood by everyone before the breakup of Hungary, with traffic and trade routes coming from the east passing through your territory and region to reach Budapest, and continuing westward from there. So once the M4 is in place, we can be sure that the flow of goods, traffic and everything else will follow the old trade route. And everyone knows that living near a trade route is a real bonus, because it always brings money to people, one way or another.
Speaking of development and the importance of the M4 motorway for transit, could this development bring larger-scale investments to this area, along the M4?
It could, because what happens is that when there are interested parties, or when we hear news from the global market that investors are looking for sites or new development areas, we usually get ready for battle and join the fray. And then the first question is always how much transport and infrastructure is available, whether there’s an industrial park, and whether there’s a sufficiently safe and wide public road with high traffic capacity leading to it. You have a fairly large industrial park, and now you’ll also have adequate road links; these two factors together give the Ministry of Foreign Affairs an opportunity to attract investment from around the world to the Karcag area. So I think that’s how it will be. But it’s not worth waiting for this to happen on its own, or for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to achieve results here. Nevertheless, one should be optimistic about foreign affairs, because recently, for example, it was possible to bring a huge investment to Békéscsaba – also because the motorway had been completed there. So, without wasting any time, I discussed this with the Mayor and local businesspeople, especially the foremost ones. We need to sit down and talk to them to find out if those who are already here have any development plans and how the Government can help, because I’m happy to help with this. We’re happy to help, the Minister for Economy is happy to help, but local people need to have development plans. Interestingly, however, at today’s meeting the Mayor didn’t put this at the top of the agenda. My notes include things like the main square, the swimming pool, and the high school.
These are also important things. If we return to the economy for a moment, Prime Minister, you’ve held talks in the United States, Russia and, of course, Türkiye. Perhaps one of the foundations of development is low energy costs. We can read and hear about the ban on Russian gas. Who, for example, opposed that vote?
It appears that the Europeans who want to completely cut Europe off from cheap gas and oil have introduced all kinds of sanctions. Then the Americans joined in, and so we had to go to Washington to gain an exemption from the sanctions on Russian oil and gas coming to Hungary. Then we had to go to the Russians, where, because of the war, we had to ensure that the agreed amount of gas and oil would definitely be available, regardless of the military situation. Then we had to go to Istanbul, because we can only transport gas and oil from Russia via Istanbul. Some of it comes through Ukraine, but most of it now comes from the south, and we had to reach an agreement with the Turks that they’d continue to allow it to pass through. So now we can say that in the coming years Hungarians won’t have to worry about paying energy bills that are as high as those in most of Western Europe – or even neighbouring countries, because even in Romania households pay almost twice as much for energy as we Hungarians do. For families it’s a huge competitive advantage and a reassuring fact that Hungary has the cheapest gas, electricity and oil prices in Europe. On the other hand, these eastern routes are also important because since 2010 we’ve seen that the European Union is losing its competitiveness, and it was doubtful whether it will be able to regain it. So, will the European Union belong to the rapidly developing regions in the world, or rather the declining ones? We saw that unfortunately there was a high probability that Europe would belong to the world of declining regions – and the recent period has unfortunately confirmed this. They haven’t been able to solve the migration problem, they haven’t been able to solve the war, they’ve made things worse with sanctions, and the entire European economy is in decline. Meanwhile we belong to the European Union. The big question is, while we’re part of an economic integration that’s in decline, whether there’s a special Hungarian path that will still allow us to be successful. Of course there is such a path. It won’t reveal itself, of course: we have to build it. But there is such a path if we don’t shut ourselves off within the European Union, but keep open our trade relations with China, Türkiye and Russia. Then with our eastern relations we can offset the loss of the European market and the weakening of the European economy. The Government is currently working on this. If we were to start building relations with the East now, it would take six, eight or ten years to establish a network of relations based on trust, upon which economic plans could then be built. So it’s good that we haven’t wasted the last ten years, but have made good use of them, and that these relations have been established. The Hungarian economy will see tangible benefits from this now – but especially in the future.
And we also need strong local representation – both here in the constituencies and throughout Jász–Nagykun–Szolnok County. Currently there are four Fidesz–KDNP representatives who have been elected by the people. We can’t ignore the campaign either. Zsolt Herczeg, Sándor F. Kovács, and János Pócs are almost certain to run. Why is it important that pro-government representatives continue to serve the people here from 2026 onwards?
Well, we have candidates for all four constituencies, except for the Szolnok district, where we’ve changed our candidate and will be fielding a new one. Although Marika Kállai has done an excellent job and we count on her work, we felt that we’d have a better chance by building new momentum, with younger people and a younger team. We want to keep all four seats. It’s difficult to govern without Members of Parliament from the Great Hungarian Plain. The Great Hungarian Plain has a lot of Members of Parliament – not only from your county, but also from Békés and Bács–Kiskun; and then there’s Nyírség and Hajdú, and there are the people of Debrecen and Jászság. So there are a lot of regions here, a lot of Members of Parliament. Whoever doesn’t win this region can’t govern – even if they win Budapest or even the western half of the country. What’s more, we have a Great Hungarian Plain programme, so one of the goals of our government is to eliminate this east–west imbalance, whereby the west is more developed than the east, and to bring the eastern part of the country – including the large areas of the Great Hungarian Plain – up to speed. We’re making good progress in this regard. Some regions are already reaching the level of development of Transdanubia, while in others we still have work to do. So we need these regions. But the reverse is also true: I believe that you also need a government in Hungary that knows the word “Alföld” [Great Hungarian Plain], and understands what it means: it’s a way of life, a mindset, a way of thinking, a culture of farm production, a unique pattern of relationships. In other words, you need a political community with knowledge of the Alföld and strong politicians from the Alföld, such as Fidesz and KDNP, who want to serve this region, develop the Great Hungarian Plain, and serve the people who live here. I believe that you too will benefit from supporting our Members of Parliament.
A lot of information reaches people, whether through social media or the national media, but I still think that the role of local media is particularly important and crucial for people living in rural areas. Prime Minister, how do you see the role of local media in providing accurate information?
You say that a lot of news reaches people. You may be right, and now I’m thinking about whether the statement in your question holds true. Because while it is true that news does reach people, the Hungarian language is able to express when something appears to be news but isn’t. Because there’s misinformation, disinformation, and alarmism. So people receive many kinds of news, and some of it has to do with reality, while other parts have nothing to do with reality. And the further away a news provider is, the less you, as a news consumer, can know whether or not it’s true. Is it fake news, as the Americans say, or real news? But the world is moving in this direction, with ever more news and information flooding over us. And no one knows exactly where it’s coming from, because the whole world is now connected into one big village: news comes from Hong Kong, Buenos Aires and wherever – and you just get it, it pours over you, and you don’t even know what’s true and what’s not. It’s hard to know what’s true and what’s not, because of course everything is a battle for clicks and the money that comes with them, and the more sensational a news story is, the more people click on it, and the more money the provider gets for it. So money distorts things there too. And in a situation like this, when money and the global flow of news are linked, and you feel vulnerable, and you can’t decide what’s true and what’s not, then reference points are very valuable, reliable reference points. And I think only the local media provides reliable reference points. So if I understand the structural change in the world’s public sphere correctly, I think that local news sources, news outlets, small TV stations and small radio stations will survive the major transformation that’s currently taking place in the world of news services or the news market. This is because people will increasingly need certainty and will become increasingly sick of being fed information, because they can’t be sure of the authenticity of one news story or another. When it comes to the world’s big news stories it’s less significant, but when it comes to specific, local news about your life, then it becomes significant. And here, when it comes to news about them or local issues, people will rely more on local news sources rather than this originating from afar. This is why I’m rooting for you, for local radio and television stations to remain in place and for people to have a reliable reference point, so that they know you, know the person who writes the newspaper or interviews someone, and they know those who edit the publication itself. In other words, there should be a personal connection, so that we know that we got this news from them, and if they’re reliable, then the news they provide is also reliable. This sense of security will become increasingly necessary in the modern world.
Speaking of a sense of security, we can’t avoid the issue of the war, just very briefly, as the Prime Minister and the world press have reported on the granting of a war loan. How does this affect Hungary?
Well, the issue of the war is important, because most European leaders currently want to go to war. This sounds very surprising to the ears of a normal Hungarian, but that’s the situation. So, many people think that Russia can be defeated in a war fought on Ukrainian territory. And that’s why the Ukrainians have already been given a lot of military equipment and money – mostly in the form of credit and loans. Because the EU is becoming poorer, the EU doesn’t have the money to give to the Ukrainians, but European countries are taking out loans and then giving them to Ukraine as loans – which everyone knows that there’s no way on earth that the Ukrainians will ever be able to repay. And so the loans taken out by the EU and given to Ukraine, which will not be repaid by them, will have to be repaid by EU citizens, EU companies, and the EU Member States themselves. A key question is whether anyone will manage to stay out of this madness. It’s very difficult to stay out of it, because, of course, since it’s a bad deal and the risk is high, the big European states want to involve everyone; they don’t want to take this risk alone. This is why, at times like this, there’s a struggle to see who can stay out of it. This weekend luck was on our side: the EU decided to grant a military loan to Ukraine, but we Hungarians – along with the Czechs and Slovaks – managed to stay out of it. I’ll draw a discreet veil over the details, but during the negotiations we adjusted our tactical moves so that we could ultimately stay out of it. This has saved us 400 billion forints – which will be repaid by the children and grandchildren of the current leaders of the EU. This 400 billion forints is roughly the same amount as that needed to build the section of the M4 motorway from Szolnok to the Romanian border. So here we’re talking about very serious sums of money. And there will be more military loans like this, because the Ukrainian government can swallow every forint, hryvnia or euro. There’s a war mafia that embezzles some of this money – and what’s more, the war can’t be won on the front line, so I think that the money we send there, however well-intentioned it may be, is in reality money poured into a bottomless pit. It makes no sense. We believe that we shouldn’t be financing war, but peace. We shouldn’t be preparing for war with Russia, but supporting the Americans in their efforts to make peace as soon as possible, so that we can stabilise the entire region. If we have to pay, it would be better to pay for peace than for war. So far Hungary has successfully avoided these financial trials, and in the coming period I’ll do everything in my power to ensure that this remains the case. This is why the next election is so important; because if we end up with a pro-Brussels government, such as Tisza or DK [Democratic Coalition], then the policy we know today will come to an end, and we’ll be dragged into the war and pushed into these loans. And then our children and grandchildren will have to pay back the money that’s now being borrowed, just as those of the less fortunate citizens of Western Europe will have to do. So we mustn’t follow the path of Brussels. My proposal to Hungarians is that we stay on the Hungarian path, so that our money doesn’t leave Hungary but stays here and can be used, for example, to develop the Great Hungarian Plain or the Nagykunság region.
So, in 2026, in addition to electing Members of Parliament, we’ll also have to make decisions on important issues.
I think – excuse me for interrupting – that there’s a high probability of war between Russia and Europe around 2030 – which means that, amid the threat of war, whether we can stay out of this war will be decided in the 2026 elections. This will be the last election before a possible European war. If we’re unable to elect a pro-peace government now, we’ll be drawn into a war.
I trust that this won’t be the case. With the holidays approaching, let’s end our interview on a slightly lighter topic. Prime Minister, how are you preparing for Christmas? Will you have a chance to relax a little?
I don’t think I’ll have time to rest, because tomorrow – tomorrow is the 23rd – there’s a cabinet meeting. I’ll have to implement its decisions on the morning of the 24th. So I’ll arrive home on the afternoon of the 24th. I hope my children will have finished decorating the tree by then. Then I’ll have a peaceful evening, and after that I’ll have two more days. We’re like every other Hungarian family, with relatives scattered far and wide, so we visit everyone at this time of year – including our children. And my parents are still with us, so we’ll visit them too. And then on the 27th work between the two holidays will begin. I’ll have two and a half days off, which is a great gift. I haven’t had two and a half days off to spend with my family in a year, so I’m really looking forward to the Christmas holiday. What’s more, we’re a large family, we have five children, and we used to live with seven people in the house, where now there are only two of us left. The house is empty, but at Christmas time the children and grandchildren come home, and suddenly there are a lot of us again. This is the greatest joy that can happen to a person at Christmas.
If you could send a few thoughts to the people of Karcag, our viewers, this Christmas, what would those thoughts be?
I wish the people of Karcag blessed, peaceful, quiet, calm and serene holidays, as well as a Happy New Year. And think carefully – we still have three, three and a half months ahead of us – about what kind of future you want for yourselves and for the country, so that in April we can make a good decision together and keep Hungary in safe, calm waters. To this end, I wish the people of Karcag and those living in the surrounding area much strength and good health. Go Hungary, go Hungarians!
Thank you very much. We also wish the Prime Minister a Blessed Christmas and thank him very much for accepting our invitation. Dear viewers, thank you very much for your attention. Please continue to watch Karcag Television, and you can find our programmes on YouTube and follow us on Facebook. See you again soon!
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