“I arrived here on the Moscow-Nyíregyháza flight,” Mr Orbán said, starting the conversation, with reference to the fact that on Friday he had talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow.
“There will be gas and oil,” he said, recalling that recently, he was compelled to negotiate two contracts, one in America in order to obtain exemption from the sanctions imposed on energy supplied by specific Russian companies.
Regarding his talks in Moscow, he said he needed to obtain a guarantee “from the president of the Russians” that “whatever happens in Russia,” the quantities of gas and oil that Hungary contracted for will arrive this winter and also next year.
“We managed to agree on this, meaning that we will be able to maintain Europe’s cheapest household energy costs,” he stated.
He observed that “it’s good to have a piece of paper that your energy supplies won’t be shot to pieces, but for that you also need energy to be supplied, and that is with the Russians.” He drew attention to the fact that there were ever more military strikes on Russian refineries and energy facilities, and therefore there was no way of knowing “how much of what will be available this winter” because this depended on the war.
In the context of his talks in Moscow and Washington, the Prime Minister also spoke about the fact that you could not negotiate from the stance of an inferiority complex, and as from the viewpoint of the real force factors Hungary was positioned much lower down, you had to find something, “something of a fundamentally psychological nature,” on the basis of which you could take part in the meetings as an equal partner as a Hungarian.
In the case of the United States, he said in continuation, this is simple as they will celebrate the 250th anniversary of their foundation next year. “This is a fantastic achievement. 250 years. But I’m a 1,100-year-old country,” he said. Regarding the Russians, he said they attacked us three times, in 1848, in World War I and in 1956, meaning that they are stronger. “But whom does Hungary belong to? That’s the question,” he said.
Mr Orbán described the Russian President as “a maxed-out former KGB operative,” and an extremely well-prepared person who knows every file in maximum depth, while regarding the US President, he said he has a different negotiating style, he focuses on strategic issues.
As to how the Russian President looks upon the Hungarians, he said he understands that we are not Slavs, “he has this notion regarding us that we’re a strange species.” He added that one always took more liberties with its own kind than “with a people of a strange kind.” Therefore, there is fundamental respect on the part of the Russians which is not intended for him or for the Hungarian government, but for the cultural phenomenon that they interpret in such a way that “oh, the Hungarians, somewhere over there.”
He stressed that they made every effort not to deceive each other. In explanation, he said the Russians have experienced the past 30 to 40 years as a period during which they have been constantly deceived; since the disintegration of the Soviet Union, they have only ever received promises, and then in the end they always found themselves at the receiving end, and this is why it is important for them whether they can trust their partner.
He indicated that therefore, during negotiations with the Russians, he used this position; namely that Hungary has honoured each and every one of the countless agreements concluded since 2009, including also those that were inconvenient or difficult, and the Russians, too, have fully honoured their obligations.
He said it is a key issue for Hungary that the great powers should look upon us in such a way that “whatever was agreed with the Hungarians must be honoured.” “The most important thing I can say regarding the Russian President is that this works,” he indicated.
During the conversation lasting for almost an hour and a half, the Prime Minister also spoke about the fact that Hungary needed a European security balance. He said Hungary needs a balance of power in Europe “which allows us Hungarians to live in peace, there should be no military threat over our heads and no war of any kind should hinder our economic development.”
He stressed that he was working “in order to find ourselves in a position at the end of the war which provides peace, security, continuous military defence and a chance for economic growth for Hungary.” He said the Hungarians must “tamper with” the peace talks in order to make sure that in the end when a new European security system comes into being, it should not be one that is bad for us.
He indicated that during his talks with the Russian President he had attempted to open up opportunities for Hungarian businesses that had gained in strength in the past 15 years. “We have opened the door to two or three major transactions, and then what MOL and the others will manage to negotiate is a business matter, it’s not the Hungarian government’s business,” he said.
He took the view that people in Brussels wanted a pro-Brussels government in Hungary. In his view, it causes a great deal of trouble in Brussels that Hungary has national interests and is not prepared to subject them to the interests of the Brussels bureaucracy. Mentioning migration as an example, he added that Brussels would turn the whole of Europe into an immigrant continent; by contrast, the Hungarians decided in a referendum that “we will not become an immigrant country.”
He also stressed that in Hungary it was important to respect the laws and value of natural education. By contrast, in his view, people in Brussels want a continent where “deviance and its different types, “various strange things” are not only accepted as parts of European life, but where the goal is to teach these to our children at a sufficiently young age as the correct way of life. Mr Orbán described this as an assault on his own children and grandchildren.
The Prime Minister called upon everyone not to allow them to decide from Brussels what government Hungary should have, and to ensure that we decide here in Budapest, not in Brussels, on the most important issues with an impact on our children’s future.
Mr Orbán took the view that there were forces in the service of Brussels. There are some who do it for money, others execute orders with a view to transforming Hungary the way Brussels would like to see it, they want to guide the country back onto the Brussels path, “while we say that we have a country of our own, a mentality of our own, a way of life of our own, and we want to live accordingly,” “we’re following a Hungarian path,” he said, adding that these are the two options.
Mr Orbán mentioned it as an example that the Brussels documents, the so-called annual economic recommendations featured tax increases, the scrapping of the flat-rate tax, the introduction of progressive taxation, the raising of the taxes of businesses, the taxation of widower’s pensions at the very minimum and the elimination of the thirteenth monthly pension.
In his words, the price of this policy would be paid in Budapest, “people there would be the worst-off as a result because the residents of Budapest will be first penalised with the property tax.”
Regarding the Russo-Ukrainian war, Mr Orbán said a series of anti-war events had never been more topical than it is today because the Europeans want to go to war. Leaders West of us believe that the Russians could now be defeated in the territory of Ukraine, and this would have advantages. First, they gave money, they gave weapons, and now the idea has emerged that if they absolutely must, they will also provide soldiers, he warned.
He added that the war was good business, too; business circles associated with the defence industry have ever more control over politics. He indicated that France had just agreed with Ukraine on the procurement of a hundred warplanes, while German arms manufacturers are setting up new factories in Ukraine and are taking equipment there.
On the other hand, if you lose a war in Europe, it has grave consequences, he added.
He said the West prevented the Ukrainians from coming to an agreement, saying that time is on their side. However, it has been revealed that time is not on their side, today they are in a worse position than if they had agreed in April years ago, he pointed out.
Who will admit this? He asked the question, highlighting that “it’s easy in America” because the person who “messed this up” lost the election.
Admitting that this war has been messed up and we cannot continue it would cause a major earthquake in European politics, he stressed.
He also observed that they were not yet at the stage where they were forced to admit this, but the time would come, the same as on the issue of migration.
He pointed out: “I’m alone in Brussels, but with America we’re two,” and additionally, “the wind is changing” also in Europe. Along came the Slovaks, Andrej Babis will take office soon in the Czech Republic, there is a change in the Polish president’s attitude, and the Italian prime minister’s voice, too, “appears to be ennobling,” he listed, concluding that Hungary will win this debate.
Mr Orbán also spoke about his talks conducted with Vladimir Putin on Friday, highlighting that the Russian President made it clear that he regarded the Donetsk fortress cities as the most valuable parts of the 1,100-kilometre-long frontline. The Russians decided to annex the entire Donetsk Oblast, but the four or five large fortress cities are putting up very serious resistance, he stated.
President Putin said, however, that even if it is going to be very difficult to occupy them, even if it is going to demand a great many sacrifices, the Russians will occupy these fortress cities, he added in continuation.
By Mr Orbán’s account, the Russians say: Wouldn’t it be better if the Ukrainians admitted that this is the balance of power? They should build new defence lines further East, and then with an American guarantee in place, the Russians will agree not to go further West. Or there is no such agreement, but in that case the Russians will go as far as and in any direction they want to, he said, talking about the alternatives.
This is the Russian position which a Ukrainian finds very hard to accept. “If your father, your brother, your son died in a defensive war, how could you surrender a territory that hasn’t even been occupied?” he said, describing the core of the dilemma.
The Hungarian Prime Minister recognised that everyone had their own considerations and it was logical to persevere with them; this is why it is so difficult to conclude a peace, this is why it is so difficult to find leaders, especially on the part of the Ukrainians, who would agree to such a peace deal.
He recalled that the year before he had warned the Ukrainians that they were making a strategic mistake, telling them that time was not on their side, and he offered his assistance with a ceasefire; however, they rejected it.
“My heart is not made of stone,” he said, adding that he understands all the moral, human and other dilemmas on the table here. However, the right starting point and the Hungarian interest is to convince the Ukrainians that though they have been attacked, they should conclude a peace in their own interests as well as in the interests of Hungary and the whole of Europe, he stated in summary.
He added that “the truth is important and many things are important, but that’s the situation, there should be a ceasefire within the shortest possible time.”
Regarding Transcarpathia, Mr Orbán said it is a relatively spared territory, indicating at the same time that no one can tell how long this situation can be maintained, and if the war escalates, “it will swallow Transcarpathia together with our own people, and then it won’t stop at the border” because that is not a physical obstacle.
“I agree with those who say that it’s not logical to think that the Russians will attack Europe as we’re stronger in every respect. But for all that, the consequences of military operations will be perceivable,” he pointed out.
He stressed that there was one way to get rid of the war: if we manage to achieve a ceasefire and peace, and the Hungarian prime minister, too, must make every effort for this to happen, for Hungary to be removed from the war danger zone.
Changing over to domestic issues, the Prime Minister spoke about the fact that pursuant to government decisions, in the next ten years, development funds worth HUF 670 billion would come to Szabolcs-Szatmár-Bereg County.
Mr Orbán said some HUF 50 billion has arrived and continues to arrive in the county from the various programmes promoting businesses such as the Baross Programme and the Demján Sándor Programme, including HUF 16 billion in Nyíregyháza. At the same time, HUF 35 billion has been allocated for the promotion of large companies as part of other calls for proposals.
Among projects implemented in Nyíregyháza, the Prime Minister listed the development of the industrial park to the value of HUF 3 billion, the construction of the western bypass road worth HUF 13 billion, the development of the zoo from an allocation of HUF 10.5 billion, and the upgrading of the local sports complex, a project worth HUF 7 billion. Another HUF 4 billion will be used for the procurement of buses and HUF 6 billion for leisure time projects. In addition to these, development funds to the value of HUF 5.1 billion will be channelled to small settlements in the vicinity, he listed.
Mr Orbán recalled that in 1998 and then in 2010 – when Fidesz received a mandate for government for a second time – he prioritised the tasks in hand from the viewpoint of the country and also with regard to political performance. Among these, a special priority was Eastern Hungary which was a less advanced part of the country because in the previous 50 to 60 years, all the resources had been channelled not to the East, but to Budapest and the western part of the country.
Eastern Hungary had to be placed on a course a growth which enabled it to catch up with Pannonia, the part of the country on the other side of the Danube. “You’re not there yet, Ladies and Gentlemen, but the path that you’re on will lead there,” the Prime Minister said, addressing his audience.
This path leads upward, one project attracts another, one development attracts another, the Prime Minister explained, adding that this is true not only of Nyíregyháza and Szabolcs-Szatmár-Bereg County, but also of the Hajdúság region and slowly of Borsod as well.
Mr Orbán mentioned that at the same time, another division, a North-South division had come into being. Now, Southern Hungary will have to be placed on the same course. In his words, “the frequently mentioned BYD didn’t fall from the sky to Szeged, it’s there because we took it there, and we will continue this.”
“We must eventually reach the old-world state where everyone has the feeling that they’re part of Hungary with equal opportunities, they’re part of the Hungarian nation with equal opportunities. If this happens, then we’ll manage to get rid of a bad inheritance,” the Prime Minister said.
Mr Orbán also said when the civic, patriotic, Christian community was in trouble, he could rest assured that in Szabolcs-Szatmár-Bereg County he had such strong bridgeheads that from here a new start could be launched.
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