Péter Csermely: Prime Minister, do you think it’s conceivable that 2025 was the last year of peace for Europe?
Yes, that can’t be ruled out.
It’s shocking in itself that this question even arises.
We’ve become accustomed to peace. The last major European war ended in 1945, and eighty years have passed since then. This is an extremely rare situation in Europe. For a long time, nuclear weapons of mass destruction kept the peoples of the continent from going to war. Everyone assumed that a European conflict would inevitably escalate into a nuclear world war. This fear prevailed for eighty years. Now, however, a completely new world is emerging. A redistribution of financial, military and political power is taking place, which could even spark a war. The war tensions being felt in Europe are the result of the decline of Western Europe and the European Union.
A few days ago you returned from the EU summit in Brussels. Are we closer to peace, or are we moving away from it?
We’re closer to war. All we managed to achieve in Brussels last week was to slow down the pace at which we’re drifting towards war. There were those who wanted to accelerate this process to hyper speed, but we managed to block them. Yet the process hasn’t stopped – we’ve only prevented it from accelerating. Today there are once again two camps in Europe: the war party and the peace party. Currently the pro-war forces have the upper hand. Brussels wants war; Hungary wants peace.
It feels as if we’re in a Chekhov play: weapons are appearing one after another on the European stage; re-armament, conscription, the conditioning of public opinion for war – everything’s happening at once.
On the surface, the Ukrainian–Russian war appears to pose the threat of escalation – but this is more of a consequence. The real cause is the political, economic and social decline of Western Europe. This process began in the mid-2000s and was accelerated by poor responses to the financial crisis. Twenty years ago, the economic performance of the European Union was roughly the same as that of the United States. Today America is skyrocketing, while Europe is sliding downhill. In just a few years, the world’s former model continent has become a laughing stock, an unserious player.
Do you think this is why Europe is being turned into a war economy?
Yes. This is a well-known historical reflex. If they can’t compete with faster-growing regions, they’ll try to generate growth through a war economy. This is also the decisive reason for the Europeans getting involved in the Ukrainian–Russian war. Yet this wasn’t inevitable. In February 2022 Europe could have decided to send peace missions to Moscow and Kyiv/Kiev, and not declare this conflict to be its own war. If that had happened, we wouldn’t be living under the shadow of war today. Instead, Europe has embarked on a path to war, partly under pressure from the US. The Biden administration’s intervention decided the debate in favour of the warmongers. Today the new president wants peace. This is a warning sign. Europe must not base its strategic decisions on American domestic political cycles. American relations are important, but European affairs must be based solely on European interests.
The leadership of the European Union seems to be increasingly using loopholes, legal tricks – and in some cases open blackmail – to influence decision-making. Can the sovereignty of European nations be preserved in opposition to Brussels?
The European Union is currently in a state of fragmentation. What’s happening is a process of disintegration that’s taking place at the same time as an intensification of the Brusselite bureaucracy’s empire-building efforts. This is how the Union is falling apart: decisions are being made in Brussels, but they’re not being implemented. First one country fails to implement them, then two, then three. Despite the intention to increase central power, decision-makers are constantly being forced to back down. It’s like a weightlifter lifting a weight but being unable to stand up with it and eventually dropping it. A good example of this is the green transition. The Commission has seriously damaged European industry, especially the chemical and automotive industries, with a programme announced against the will of the Member States. They announced that from 2035 it would no longer be possible to manufacture conventionally powered cars; and then when it became clear that this was impossible, they backed down. The same thing is happening with migration. Hungary isn’t implementing the Migration Pact, so we’re being fined one million euros a day. The Poles are doing the same thing we are, but they’re being rewarded for it. The EU is constantly curtailing the sovereignty of nations, while at the same time being unable to exercise the powers it’s acquired. This is the chaos that reigns in Brussels today. Without rapid, far-reaching reorganisation, which would be possible, the disintegration will reach a point of no return.
Could it be that the price of peace will be Ukraine’s EU membership? Would this be acceptable to Hungary?
Fortunately, there’s no such linkage.
So far, every peace plan has included Ukraine’s accession to the EU.
This is just a way of sweetening the bitter pill. EU membership won’t guarantee protection. Moreover, it will never happen. Ukraine’s EU membership is not realistic. Hungary is openly opposed to even starting negotiations, but there are a number of Western European countries where a parliamentary decision or referendum would be required. These won’t happen. In the corridors of Brussels everyone knows this and says so. But in the chambers the promises continue to be made. The peoples of Europe can clearly see that Ukraine’s accession wouldn’t strengthen the Union, but would weaken it. Today they still say that Ukraine’s military strength will increase Europe’s security, but that’s not true. Maintaining Ukraine is draining energy and resources from Europe. With Ukraine, we’re getting weaker every day.
The Hungarian economy has been suffering for years. Is war the only reason?
No. The Hungarian economy is suffering from both the war and the decline of the European Union. The EU’s response to the war, its sanctions policy, has killed European industry. Energy prices have grown to two to three times those of our competitors. It’s impossible to compete like this. The other problem is that Hungary is part of a declining Union. Those who are in it are declining with it. Today the EU is both necessary and life-threatening for us. It’s necessary because a significant proportion of our exports go there. At the same time it’s life-threatening because if we can’t reorganise our exports to other, growing regions, we’ll sink with it. Our task is to ensure that Hungary develops while the Union declines. This is a serious political and intellectual challenge.
Your political opponents change from election to election. Now a third-tier NER [“System of National Cooperation”] cadre has become your challenger. Do you fear him?
No. Only the names change, but the character remains the same. One was called Péter Márki-Zay, the other is Péter Magyar – but their roles are identical. From time to time Brussels pulls them out of its hat so that there’s someone to put Hungary on the Brusselite track.
What is the Brusselite track?
The Brusselite track is an oath of allegiance, whereby every day you have to say that Hungary’s fate is tied to that of the European Union. That the Union isn’t declining, but renewing itself. That there are no strategic mistakes, only a bright future. That therefore powers must be transferred to Brussels: tax policy, energy policy, the pension system. In recent years Brussels has laid out these demands for us, point by point. The same points appear in the Tisza Party’s programme, and indeed they call it “the convergence programme”: we must become like Western Europe; we must become a country of immigrants; we must implement the Migration Pact, and we must build refugee cities. The three sins that destroyed Western Europe: the primacy of global big capital over the interests of the people; letting in and settling migrants; and re-educating children in the spirit of woke and gender ideology. We reject all three. Today this is the essence of national sovereignty. Brussels wants Hungary to give up its resistance and become like them. The Tisza Party also represents this view. This is an old story. Now we’re experiencing a new version of it.
In recent weeks several old names have come forward as supporters of the Tisza Party: Lajos Bokros, Mária Zita Petschnig, László Lengyel, Ildikó Lendvai, György Raskó, Péter Ákos Bod.
Today there are two sides: those who stand for national sovereignty, and those who stand for the European empire. Since the early 1990s these people have been proclaiming that Hungary must not only adopt Western tools and methods, but must also essentially emulate Western Europe. This has always been a dividing line in Hungarian politics. According to one school of thought, articulated by József Antall, we are Hungarians, and therefore Europeans. According to the other, we must live as Europeans in a territory called Hungary. Those people have always represented the latter. Now birds of a feather are flocking together.
The Tisza Party doesn’t have an official programme, but their intentions can be inferred from their statements and background materials.
A well-known picture can be obtained by putting together these pieces of the mosaic. They’re the imprints of instructions coming from Brussels. The method for winning the election that Tisza has chosen is not one which involves debates about the future, but inflaming emotions. It needs to stir up hatred and contempt for everything that’s been achieved over the past fifteen years – everything of value, everything that’s a source of national pride. People must be made to believe that their lives can only improve if they trample on those who stand in the way of “salvation” from Brussels – in other words, us. This is a political toolkit based on emotions, borrowed from Brussels. I believe that when it comes to deciding our future, Hungarians will ultimately make a sensible decision, and we’ll win an overwhelming election victory that exceeds all expectations. Reason will prevail over emotion. Patriots will prevail over the Brusselites.
An uninterrupted fourth term in office, sixteen years of government. What are you most proud of?
In recent years, for example, Hungary has won three Nobel Prizes, which is simply wonderful. Through our successes in nation building, we’ve restored the self-esteem of the country and the Hungarian people. We’ve shown that we’re not a people of defeat and retreat, that we can win, and that we’ll overcome Hungary’s misfortune. But if I had to say one thing, it would be that if we hadn’t transformed Hungary in 2010, there would be 200,000 fewer Hungarian children living in this country today. That’s how many more children are sitting under Christmas trees today. What could be more important than that?
So family policy is the key issue?
We’ve constructed two major pillars. One is a work-based economy. We realised that Western Europe’s biggest mistake was the illusion that it’s possible to live well without work and effort. That led to a welfare-based economic system, which has now proven to be unviable. In contrast, we said that a country can only be sustained through work, merit and performance. In order to encourage extra effort we’ve transformed everything – from education to family support. The other pillar is a family-based society. Contrary to the liberal view, we don’t consider the basic unit of life to be the individual, but rather the family. A work-based economy and a family-based society – this is what Hungarian life is built on today.
If peace were to be achieved between Russia and Ukraine, what would be your first step?
First of all, I’d give thanks to God. At last week’s “council of war” in Brussels the proposal was that we give Ukraine a loan of 90 billion euros, intended to finance another two years of war. We’re staying out of this. But let’s do the math: every week approximately 9,000 people are killed in the fighting on both sides. That’s 400,000 people a year. In two years, that’s 800,000 dead or seriously wounded. Who dares to take moral responsibility for this? If we can be rid of this, our first response should be gratitude.
What’s your message to Hungarians for Christmas 2025?
Today the Western world is in turmoil. At times like this, it’s difficult to find something to hold on to. I refer back to a simple Christian teaching: Love your neighbour as yourself. Right now, I’m focusing not on the first part, but on the second: love yourself. This doesn’t mean self-worship or self-praise, but rather that we appreciate what we’ve achieved and don’t underestimate the results achieved in our own lives. All these are reasons for self-respect: a family kept together; well-raised and educated children; loyalty to our friends; lovingly accompanying our parents throughout their lives’ journey; work that has been attained and retained; one’s own home; a confident, self-directed life; any sacrifice made for the homeland. Proper self-knowledge brings with it self-respect, and self-respect brings recognition of other people’s successes and achievements – in other words, love for one’s neighbour. I see no other path that would lead Hungarians to peace.
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