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Miguel Ángel Quintana Paz: So, Mr. Prime Minister, good afternoon.
Good afternoon.
Nice to see you here and thank you very much for giving us this opportunity for talking about Spain a little bit – also about Hungary, about Patriots and the world.
It’s my pleasure. Thank you very much for inviting me.
So you’ve been walking around Madrid, I know, meeting with people, talking with them. So how do you see Spain?
The fact is that this is not my first visit to come to Madrid. So there are some spaces and places which I like to visit.
To go again.
One is the stadium of Real Madrid. To go to a football match is always a priority. Second, I know the market, which is the world’s famous anyway. And I like to go there always. But Prado is always on the list. So I like to be in your city because many European cities are losing its eloquency, you know, because everything is getting very much, you know, mass dominated.
Yeah, uniform.
But it’s a big city, but now, you know, it’s an imperialistic city. So it’s the center of an imperium.
It was.
Think big, you know: “Think big, do big.” So this is the impression I have got always when I’m walking on the streets of your wonderful capital.
And how do you find Spain nowadays? How do you feel that people are in the countries?
So we have some good memories. Many of us knows that in ’56, when we had a revolution against the communists and the Soviet Union, many international organizations and countries criticized us, saying that it’s fascism against the Soviet Union, it’s bad thing, blah, blah. But there were some countries who were proud enough and brave enough, and said, ”Now we are with you.” And Spain in the ’50s, we are thinking of ’56, Spain and your leader at that time said, “We are with you. And if it is possible and necessary, we are ready to fight for you.” So you know, in our mind, in our soul, it’s a living memory. So that’s first. Second, of course, Puskás Pancho, who is also a very interesting story. He was punished by the communists after the Revolution. He was not allowed to come back to Hungary. He remained outside, you know, losing all the chances, being 30. And Real Madrid was so generous to invite him to give a second chance to him. And he became a hero here. So we are very proud of him as a player of Madrid. So that’s the second point. And the third point, of course, we are educated in the secondary schools that you contributed to the world traveling all around, discovering many new continents and countries and Christian civilization were spread away by you, which is a great achievement. We appreciate that. So we have that kind of outstandingly positive impression about Spain. So when a Hungarian is listening to some conversation, “The Spanish”, we say, “the good guys are here.”
So thank you very much for the compliment. You’re talking about the past, about the communist past of your country. You were a fighter against that. But nowadays we also talk, we hear people talking about censoring, about going against free speech, again, about going against the will of the people. So do you find a connection between that time that you fought against and the fight that you’re having nowadays?
So the fact is that I spent 26 years of my life in the communist regime, which was a brutal dictatorship. So I know what does it mean dictatorship, and what is the value of freedom. So when those guys criticizing me in the West, being not democratic enough, they were not fighting never for democracy: they were born into democracy. Unlike me. So I am a fighter, I’m a street fighter. We established our political organization ’88, two years earlier than the communist regime collapsed. We were always anti-communist. We were the first organization in Central Europe requesting that Soviet Union troops should leave Central Europe, first Hungary. So we were always a freedom fighter and national sovereignty fighters as well. So we are born freedom fighters. So all the criticism on democracy and something like we’re just smiling on that: “Guys, you don’t know what you are speaking about.” This is the first. Second, we won elections. So I’m not just the record holder as time spending in the office of the prime minister – which is 19 years or something like that. Incredible. But at the same time, the record holder of the longest-serving opposition leader of Europe – because I led the opposition for 16 years. So I know… And I lost elections. I won elections, then I lost elections, then I came back. So those who are criticizing me never did so. So I know both sides of the coin: what is it about opposition and government, and how is changed the position when you lose elections. And when we lost elections, you know, we accepted it. And then we said, “Okay guys, next time we try to serve you even better”, and we came back and do it. So that’s the story. If you look at the media, I think if you come to Hungary and follow the Hungarian media, which is not easy because of our language anyway – don’t try, hopeless, anyway…
Some people do.
So if you are able to translate our media coverages, you can see that it’s very colorful. So the Hungarian media is more colorful than many of the Western countries. So the only reason why we are criticized that we have close to balanced situation in the media system in Hungary: 50 percent is against the government, being very critical, left is progressive; and another 50 percent is rather conservative Christian, national based. So that kind of close-to-balanced situation is quite rare in Europe because everywhere the progressive liberals are up…
Yeah, like here. Here in Spain.
…the conservatives are down. And the liberals don’t like, if you have the same strength of voice on the right side than they have. So that’s rubbish, progressive, globalist, elitistic criticism on Hungary, which has nothing to do with the reality.
Yeah. And this accusation of being a threat against democracy is sometimes also directed against, for example VOX here and Santiago Abascal – you’re a friend of him. So what would you say about these kind of threats to him or to people in Spain?
You know, guys as we are, we call… OK, we are national guys. We love our nation – like Santiago, me also. We are proud of our nation. We are ready to serve our nation – even probably if it’s necessary we are ready to die for our nation. So we are that kind of guys. We are totally different from the progressive. They are not that kind of guys as we are. And one of the favorite instrument of the progressive Left to criticize us to say that we are not democratic. But it’s not true. We love our country. We put it at the highest rank. We are ready to serve it, but at the same time we accept that competition is competition in the modern political age. So we are ready to compete. We are not against the competition. We are ready to compete with the Left. What we request for is fair treatment, equal basis, which is not provided by the Left at all. So in Hungary, you know, when the Left or the communists said something bad on the Right, we were sure that they are doing exactly what they accused us of. So when they say that we are not in favor of freedom, it means that they are not in favor of freedom. So that’s so simple. It’s a political game.
Let’s talk a little bit about the world now. Do you see that there is a turning point now, that there is a wind of change, so to say, and that this kind of idea that you defend, that Santiago Abascal defends, that all Patriots party defend, are in a good moment?
I think I’m the right person to be asked about that question. Because in Hungary, we started to build up a conservative Christian national society and political system 15 years ago. It was 2010 when we came back to power, getting two-thirds majority. We changed the Constitution and many things. And for 15 years, we were under constant attack on behalf of the Brusselian bureaucrats, the Soros NGO network, and the American Democratic administration. So I know how was the world, you know, in the last 15 years. So therefore I’m able to appreciate and understand how big the change which is going on now. And I can assure you that now it’s a completely new world. The pro-migrant, pro-migration, pro-gender, anti-sovereignist political age and chapter of history is over by the American election. It’s over. They tried to isolate us, and now we are the mainstream, after the victory of Trump. They said that, “Guys, you belong to the past, the remnants of the Middle Ages or something like that, being believer, Christian, national – it’s not, it has nothing to do with the future.” But, so, but now, we are the future. And now we are in power. We have a majority in the Western world – not in Europe yet. If you consider the Western world as a whole, America and Europe, now we patriots has a majority in the Western world. And I’m sure we will occupy Brussels – as well as President Donald Trump did with Washington. So I’m convinced that we are on the right track.
So let’s talk about Brussels a little bit. Do you think… Well, you belong to the Patriots group. The meeting of the Patriots group is the reason – one of the reasons, or one maybe Puskás and the Prado is your reason – for being here. Do you think that it could be possible to make a big alliance with other parties? I’m thinking about ECR, that also are more or less in the way, in the path, to sovereignist ideas?
My experience is the following. If you would like to build up a strong alliance system, first of all, you have to be strong yourself. Weak guys cannot create strong alliances. So the first and number one thing is – number one thing is – to create a strong patriotic European group, which we did. And if you look at, put aside America, but now in Holland, in Italy, in Hungary, I think soon in Austria, and I think soon in Czech Republic, the Patriots are writing the future – which is good. Of course, there are some other organizations which also are conservative – probably less Christian and less national than we are, but at least conservative, like ECR. The question is what the future will bring. And I think the distance between the groups – Patriot and ECR – is decreasing. And I’m sure that in the forthcoming several months, more and more issues will come up to the political arena about which we will agree. So I see the future as a process of getting closer and closer of ECR and Patriots. And then we will see how we can conclude this process.
So in the near future, in the next months and so on…
So my idea is not to make a broad deal on the cooperation, but step by step, deal by deal, issue by issue. So I think we have 100 percent agreement between ECR and Patriots on migration, because they are anti-migration parties. I’m sure that we have a 100 percent agreement on gender issue, because we are pro-family. I’m not sure that we have an agreement on the war between Ukraine and Russia. There are many differences, but I think that the war is getting closer and closer to the end. And the American president can manage to have a peace, and then the issue is out. Then I’m sure that 100 percent we agree with ECR on Green Deal, which is a failure, a mistake, a badly managed process and program. So Green Deal is dead, and we have to create another system which is better for the people and for the companies. So just three examples which shows how many possibilities of getting closer to each other is coming up in the future.
Let’s talk, if you want, about the Ukrainian war that you mentioned. Do you think that there are… Because some people… The Ukraine war and also Russia. Some people say, this hearsay that you have here, this chit chat about you, sometimes that you are like a kind of friend of Putin. What would you say to those people?
I’m a friend of the Hungarians, yeah? So in the middle of my universe is Hungary – not Moscow or Putin, or whatever. So what I’m concentrating on, and what I’m serving by my activity, is my nation and my country, full stop. Of course, there are Americans, Russians, Chinese, whatever, Brusselians, but the number, first of all is Hungary. That’s what I’m doing. Of course I’m criticized because at the very first moment I was the only European leader who said that, “Guys, we should isolate that conflict, not to extend it. So if you will extend it and you consider it by Brussels as our own war, and we will support Ukraine instead of managing an immediate peace, we will pay a very high price. And we will be ashamed, because we will lose that war. We simply cannot win that war. We will lose it militarily, economically and geopolitically as well. Don’t do that. Go there, force the two enemies to come together, sit down and isolate, isolate the conflict.”
The same position as Trump nowadays.
So Trump is doing exactly the same thing. So what I was criticized for is the main program of Donald Trump President. So, so I think the Hungarian idea that we should make a peace is relevant and it was relevant even three years ago. It was a mistake on behalf of the Brusselian bureaucrats not to take the Hungarian line and advice. And they extended the war instead of limitation or managed limitation of the war. It’s a badly manufactured and badly engineered strategy that we follow now, and we pay a huge price: by money as well, by respect, and by lives of the poor Ukrainians as well.
Let’s go to another part of the world, if you like. It could be Argentina, another Spanish-speaking leader in the world, Javier Milei: also maybe a sign of renewal in the world, of a change of political direction. What could you tell us about Milei?
I know him personally. He’s an outstanding figure of the modern politics. He is a maverick anyway. So you can’t find a box to say that he’s conservative or whatever, liberal, whatever. So because he’s on his own category, yeah. I like that kind of leaders anyway, because, you know, they are not boring. And he’s definitely not. And they are not discouraged. They are brave, and he’s a brave man. So if you think himself or yourself into his shoes or in chair and look at the figures of the Argentine economy, you know, you must be a brave man to be ready to act and to save your country. And he’s doing that, and he’s saving it. And the figures are improving, and I think more and more Argentine people understand what he’s speaking about and what is his plan. So I think finally he will save Argentine.
A good sentence. Talking about salvation, would you mind if we talk a little bit about religion and the place of religion nowadays in today’s world. President Trump recently talked about the importance of religion in the public sphere. So what are your thoughts about that? Also, if you want, what is the place of religion in your personal political career, your personal political way of thinking?
So Hungary is a Christian nation, which means that even everybody, almost everybody – being believer or not – think that without the cultural heritage of Christianity and without the achievement of the culture of the Christian religion, Hungary would not exist anymore. So you know, Christianity, Christian tradition, is the main reason why we Hungarians still exist. Think about 10 million people surrounded by no relatives, being alien, the same place, more than 1,100 years. How is it possible? Just because of the God and Christian tradition. Because God loves us, otherwise Hungary would have been disappeared in the several centuries earlier. So that’s the first. That’s not about religion – it’s about the culture heritage and Christian heritage. Unfortunately, on the personal aspect of religion, personal relation to the God is not in a good shape in Hungary. Because we are becoming part of the mainstream of the European Union where there are fewer and fewer believers. I belong to the believer community, anyway. But I see that we are less and less. And unfortunately the Christian impact and the personal conviction in God plays less and less role in the public life – and even in the personal life of our societies. But this is the case. So if you ask me about what is the relation the Christian personal conviction belonging to the Christian community as I do at home, and the political principles and political activity, I think there is a direct relationship. Because what is the main question of politics when you have a decision ahead of you? You have to answer one simple question: What is good and what is bad? So if you are with God, it’s easier to find an answer to that question. What is bad and what is good? So for us, the guys like we are, who belong to the God, I think it’s easier to find a good answer to the main issue: Which is bad, which is good, which track should be followed by me? So I think without that kind of background and personal belief, the outcome of my policy would be far poorer than it is today. That’s how I see. And I have a happy family, which is following the same track. So we are living in a happy Christian family. Many of us, I have five children anyway, and some six grandchildren already, and we belong to the same community. So it’s nice and really God loves us, no question.
Let’s go back to Spain for a little while. Have you found any special inspiration in any piece of literature or architecture, painting, spiritual legacy of Spain – that has a huge history as Hungary does? These both nations have you. Could you mention some special author, or…
I don’t know whether is it a good thing or not to mention a name like Gaudi here in Madrid.
Of course. Yeah, you can.
But Gaudi is a well-known man, because there are some Hungarian architects, great philosophers who follow the same way of creating buildings in Hungary, as he did here. Secession as a style, which you have, is very well developed in Hungary from the beginning of the 19th century. So we… some theaters and so on. So we have some similarities. Plus Prado. Prado is… Everybody knows what is Prado. Prado is very high in our respect hierarchy, may I say. We always like to go there. Plus, you know, the beauty of your country, which you also well know – not just a tourist, but anyway, traveling less known places. Segovia and all that kind of… You know, we love it. So I think… Plus we have a kind of… Cervantes, of course, it’s taught in the secondary school. So I think there are many, many inspirations from the Spanish history. El Cid, the movie, your hero, is also well known. Many inspiration to love your country, to be a good Christian. At the same time, enjoy the quality of the life in art and culinary, you know, in fashion. So you are a strong brand in the understanding of the Hungarians. Inspiration, I think… I try to be cautious with that. So how I met first time with Santiago Abascal. We just met and he said, let’s have a talk. I was poorly educated about him and his party, to be honest. But I have seen that he’s a young man. And he explains Spain, his vision… I don’t know. And I said, “I like what you are saying.” Because in Europe now I’m surrounded – in Brussels and the international arena I’m surrounded – by persons who has no any kind of understanding of greatness, and being motivated to do something in favor to make your nation great again. So I’m surrounded by tired leaders who has no real vision in the future and try to create not too many risk and complicated situation. They are thinking rather about what is the next morning front page of a liberal paper, and less about the future of the next generation. So I said, “You are a rare person, Santiago, who would like to do something”, which is… I’m always observing whether my partner would like to do something. He said, “I would like to do everything.” That was his answer, you know? So back to the inspiration. Why was that his answer? Because he is inspired – and I think the majority of the Spanish people are inspired – by understanding of greatness. Which is not a superiority over somebody else, but greatness, you know, to, to, to live in a great way, to create something great, which is getting closer to the God. Which is really important: not a false bullshit something, but a real stuff. And then I think your country is about that. It’s a real stuff. It’s a real country. It’s a real civilization, real people, real obsession. So that’s how Abascal and VOX and Spanish people, I know, motivate us and inspire the Hungarians. Because greatness is important for the soul of the Hungarians – even if we are far smaller than you are. Small nations like to be great as well.
Yeah, because greatness is something other as you explained. Yeah, yeah. Well, I was going to ask you, for a final question, just to give us some to us Spaniards, some encouragement, some advice for the fight. But maybe you have already done it. You have asked for greatness.
My Spanish friends, so you don’t know how lucky you are. If you compare your history – especially in the latest decades – with the Hungarians, you are far luckier than we are. First of all, you were clever enough and well led and governed to remain out of the Second World War – which destroyed my country. So I think that’s a great, great achievement on your behalf that you remained out. We started from the scratch. Our beautiful capital was totally destroyed by the American bombers, by the Soviet Union artillery, and the German soldiers. They were all over there. So you saved your own country, which is a great, great achievement. And one of the main challenge of the modern world is how to reorganize our economy. And we have a problem of demography: less and less kids are born. And you have a huge background, because of the Spanish world. So it’s not just Iberia what we are speaking about: we are talking about the huge Spanish world. So you are so lucky that you have the same language, same religion, same culture based millions and millions and tens of millions around you – not in Europe, but even outside. This is a huge source of energy. If you organize yourself in a clever, in a smart way, you will have a wonderful future – far easier than we have to do it in Hungary.
Oh, thank you very much for these words, for the interview. And it was a luck for us to talk to you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much, Mr. Prime Minister.
Thank you.
