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Regarding the Prigozhin rebellion, the Prime Minister said he does not attribute much significance to what happened. He said “it is a clear sign of weakness” that something like this could happen, but “it is a sign of strength” that it was brought to an end within 24 hours.
He stressed: if anyone thinks that Russian President Putin “could fail or be replaced, they don’t understand the Russian people and the Russian public structures.” Russia “operates differently than us,” it is a different world, its structures are based on the army, the secret services and the police, and are highly stable, he explained, adding that the Prigozhin rebellion “is over and the war is going on.”
“This is not an event which would lead us to peace. Because I always focus on, related to this war, through the lens of peace; because my position is that the most urgent thing is to have a ceasefire and to somehow create peace,” said Mr Orbán in the interview, an abridged version of which was also broadcast on the German news television Welt forming part of Bild’s publisher Springer.
He highlighted that Vladimir Putin “is stable, he’s an elected leader of Russia, he is popular, and the structures behind him are rather strong.”
He added at the same time that he was fighting for Hungary, and cared neither about Vladimir Putin, nor Russia. “I care about Hungary, […] and definitely everything which is going on now between Russia and Ukraine is bad for the Hungarians” and “is dangerous for the Hungarians,” he said.
He explained he did not want to create the impression that he was not hoping that the Ukrainians might have a chance to survive, but standing on the foundations of reality, one must conclude that the cooperation between Ukraine and the West is a failure.
He said it is not possible to win a war against Russia in such a way that the Ukrainians are fighting on the front and “we support them financially and by information and by instruments.”
“The problem is that the Ukrainians will run out of soldiers earlier than the Russians, and that will be a decisive factor in the end,” Mr Orbán stated.
He added that what mattered most was what the Americans wanted to do as Ukraine “is not a sovereign country anymore,” they have no money, they have no weapons, and “they can fight only because we support them.” This means that “when the Americans decide that they would like to have peace, there will be peace.”
He highlighted that right from the beginning he had advocated peace, and had stood for the concept that rather than turning the conflict into “a global war,” it must be isolated, and control over processes must be handed back to politicians and diplomats. If there had been talks right from the beginning, “there would not have been so many lives lost and the country would not have been destroyed.” However, diplomacy has failed and the army is dictating what is happening.
We must put an end to this, we must return to politics and diplomacy, we need a ceasefire and talks because this is the only way to save lives, the Prime Minister stressed, adding that the Russians have the feeling that time is on their side “which is not good for us, but the fact is that unfortunately it proved to be true.”
He stressed that we wanted to save Ukraine, and the only way to do so was “for the Americans to initiate negotiations with the Russians and to make a security architecture deal, and to find a place for Ukraine in this new security architecture.”
He added that the Ukrainians had the right to decide about their own future, including about whether to continue to engage in the war. At the same time, we have the right to decide whether to give them money and weapons. If the Americans say we want peace, and “therefore we won’t give money and weapons, there’s no other option for anybody – not even for the Ukrainians – except to go for negotiation and to create peace and a ceasefire.”
In answer to the question of why in the event of a victory Vladimir Putin would stop at Ukraine’s border and why he would not attack Poland or the Baltic countries, he said the war in Ukraine “shows clearly that NATO is far stronger than Russia.”
“Why would anybody who is weaker want to attack NATO?” he asked, adding that “it’s so obvious and clear that NATO is far stronger.”
Mr Orbán answered the question of whether he regards the Russian president as a war criminal in the negative, and highlighted that war crimes will have to be discussed after the war. He said “if you would like to have a ceasefire and then negotiate, we have to convince those who are part of the conflict to come to the table,” and “if you would like to invite them to the table and say ‘Come to the table and I will arrest you,’ it’s not the best idea.”
He added that for peace, we need negotiations; for negotiations, we need negotiators, and “who else will negotiate, if not the leaders of the countries who are at war?”
He also spoke about Ukraine’s possible NATO membership, pointing out that the NATO treaty clearly lays down that a country at war cannot join the alliance.
He underlined that the war in Ukraine was not our war, but the war of the Ukrainian people, and so it was the task of the Ukrainian people alone to decide on moral and historical issues. Therefore, “my advice would be: ‘Do exactly what is the best for you. But what is the best for you must be defined by yourself,’” as Ukraine is an independent and proud nation and country, the Prime Minister said.
