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In the interview, Mr Orbán said in western politics there is a European scene and there is an American scene. “There is a wrestling match between pro-peace and pro-war forces on the European scene, and there is the same match under way in America, too. If we talk about Europe, we’re not doing well. There are twenty-something states in the European Union which are firmly pro-war. There is one Member State – that’s Hungary – that is positively pro-peace, and there was a country, Slovakia which had only just manoeuvred itself over – with the aid of the government that had been formed after the elections – from the pro-war position to a pro-peace one,” he added.
The Prime Minister observed that the European elections would not be simply just about the distribution of mandates in the European Parliament; everywhere these will be national elections, too, and governments do have responsibility to their own citizens. The Prime Minister’s assumption is that after the European elections the approach of prime ministers to the issue of the war will perceivably change because despite all its weaknesses, the European political system is fundamentally a democratic political system, and you cannot swim against the tide over an extended period without consequences: prime ministers must adjust to public opinion. “I expect to see a European Parliament in which pro-peace forces will outnumber pro-war forces,” and that also in the European Council – where the prime ministers are – the balance of power will shift: There will be more pro-peace leaders and fewer pro-war ones, he said.
In his view, the next grade of war – which would mean that Ukraine would be given technologies that are also capable of penetrating Russian territories, or God forbid, the soldiers of Western European states or NATO troops should enter Ukrainian territories – is a step that even the majority of previously pro-war prime ministers regard as too much.
This is a process in which we must manoeuvre cleverly, and on which both the European Parliament elections and the US elections to be held at the beginning of November will have an impact. “These two elections together could result in a turnaround that could, in theory, take us from pro-war western politics to a pro-peace stance, to peace,” he added.
Regarding the clemency scandal, the Prime Minister said he was entirely without means in this situation because in Hungary the function of the president of the republic is carefully separated from the incumbent government and the incumbent parliament. “Dealing with affairs related to the president is a sensitive issue, and I myself try not to meddle in them.” At the same time, in his view, Katalin Novák made the right decision when she resigned.
He described the resignation of former justice minister Judit Varga as an “unfortunate part” of the affair, “a blood sacrifice.” He added that there had been an established practice for twenty or thirty years which had been that if the president of the republic had decided to grant someone clemency, the signing of the clemency decision by the justice minister had been a mere formality. Even if the justice minister did not previously agree with the decision. For twenty-five years, not once has the justice minister refused to sign such decisions.
“I believe that instead of presenting this issue to the government or discussing it with us, Judit thought that in light of the established practice she should sign the decision. I think she didn’t have a choice either, she had to go, but in her case the consequences were overly harsh. Fate treated her unfairly. I’m very sorry that the justice minister found herself in this situation,” he said.
In answer to a question, Mr Orbán also said that he has spoken to them both since. He meets with Judit Varga more frequently, and there are affairs regarding which he counts on her opinion also now.
Concerning Judit Varga’s ex-husband Péter Magyar, he said he does not know the gentleman in question, he never exchanged more than two sentences with him, and even those were completely formal. “If he was part of the ‘inner circles’, then I’m not,” he said.
He added that he was reluctant to tread beyond the realm of politics and to make judgements about people, especially about people that he did not know. It is easy to hurt someone or to commit an injustice. It is, however, most certainly somewhat unusual for anyone to record their conversations with their own wife and to then use the recorded conversations for political purposes. “But even this is more than what I wanted to say. We have strong personal feelings for Judit – as I said, there is also friendship – and so seeing her suffering or being tormented is painful for us all.”
In answer to the question of whether he is annoyed by Mr Magyar’s political initiative, Mr Orbán responded in the negative.
Not a single Hungarian elector can be barred from trying themselves in the realm of politics, he argued, adding that he may even be led by a conviction that may well be remarkable. You must not judge anyone prematurely, you never know what is round the corner. It takes patience and perspective to judge someone in politics.
He observed that it would bother him if all this was happening on their half of the pitch, but as all this is happening to the left of them and so falls within the realm of opposition affairs, he has no personal or emotional connection to any of this.
