Andrea Hagyánek: Prime Minister, what do you expect from the negotiations, and what specific successes would you be satisfied with tomorrow evening, Washington time?
We have a grand plan: now that over the past six months we’ve eliminated the bad measures against Hungary introduced by the Biden administration, that work is done, and now we’re opening a new chapter in the annals of US–Hungarian cooperation and alliance. There are a couple of issues that need to be resolved and a couple of goals that can be achieved, and that’s what the talks will be about. One issue is the system of US sanctions on Russian fossil fuels, which, if it remains in place, would be extremely unfavourable for Hungary – both for households and businesses. I’d like to achieve results on that, so we need to avert a danger. And there are opportunities for cooperation in science, research, energy and the military, and I want to take advantage of those opportunities. These are the goals. The series of negotiations has been well prepared, so I have to say that we’re coming to Washington with a very good chance of success.
Since you’ve mentioned it, I’d like to ask you this: Donald Trump has called you his friend, and last week he made a statement regarding the sanctions. He said he emphasised that you’re his friend, but perhaps he was sending a message to everyone that he won’t back down on the sanctions – that is, he won’t grant an exemption.
Well, we need to discuss that.
And how will you discuss it? How should I imagine it?
I’ll explain how this American decision affects us. Then I’ll explain that exceptions have already been granted to some companies and countries, so granting exceptions doesn’t break a general rule. For example, Germany has also been granted an exception for one of its major refineries. So I’ll say that I have serious arguments, on the basis of which I’m asking him to include us in the list of countries that are granted exemptions from sanctions, for understandable and acceptable reasons. This needs to be discussed.
In their everyday lives, how will the Hungarian people feel that Hungarian–American relations have entered a new phase, a fruitful phase?
Those who travel to America are already feeling it, as we’ve revoked the punitive visa system introduced by Biden and his people, so that Hungarians can travel to America as easily as possible. I’m not saying that every Hungarian wants to travel to America or often travels there, but for many people this is important because they study or work there, or have relatives there. They’re already feeling this. Then there are those who live in places where American investments have been made in recent months – there have been seven such investments. Those who live there have all found jobs, higher-paying jobs, and have even been able to make links with American investments, so Hungarian small and medium-sized enterprises have also gained business opportunities. And if we can now reach an agreement on oil, then millions of Hungarian households will be saved. More than 90 per cent of Hungarian households use natural gas. If I can’t achieve a change in sanctions here in America, then there will be an almost inevitable price increase in household energy bills, with serious social consequences. I must prevent that: here and now I must protect the interests of Hungarian households. And businesses would face similar problems. So if we succeed in this, then the situation of Hungarian households and businesses won’t be worse – even in the shadow of a looming threat. And if I succeed in reaching agreement on energy issues and a few military issues, then we’ll also be benefiting the country’s security and the economy through further American investment – the benefits of which people will feel. So yes, a good Hungarian–American relationship at the strategic level will bring tangible benefits for every Hungarian family. If we could also bring about peace, it would not only lift Hungarian families out of trouble, but every family in Europe; because the blockage that’s currently suffocating economic growth in Europe – including in Hungary – would be removed, and suddenly economic growth across Europe could increase dramatically, to a higher level.
The American professor Paul Garner has told Magyar Nemzet that in his opinion the key to peace is the reintegration of Russia into Europe. And he’s also said that if the war isn’t over within six months, it will escalate. What do you think about that?
I believe that we need a new European security system. This European security system must include Russia, and it must include European countries with military capabilities that can defend the European continent against any Russian threat. This is what we call balance. Today the situation is unbalanced. If we don’t create this, then the next generation – even though it’s made up of talented people – will indeed have to live their lives and achieve their economic performance in the shadow of danger, in the shadow of a military, war-related danger. An unsettled, ongoing state of war in Europe would significantly limit them. There’s one way to prevent that: the creation of a new security system that seeks equilibrium. The chances are there, the opportunity is there, so it’s a question of intellect and political will. The Americans understand this and want to create it. The Europeans, based on current power relations, don’t want this: the Europeans want to continue the war; European governments want the Ukrainians to defeat the Russians on the front line. They believe there’s a chance of that happening, and they’re willing to spend a significant portion of European taxpayers’ money on attempting to achieve it. I’m fighting to prevent Hungarian money from going there, but they want to give it away and change the current situation; and then they want to create a new security system. I think this is a major gamble, with enormous risks. We’re risking both economic collapse and escalation of the war. This is why the European strategy is bad and the American strategy is good; and it’s in our interest for the American strategy to be implemented.
And in your opinion, when will there be a chance to end the war, and when is the earliest that we can expect the Budapest peace summit?
It could happen any day. There are one or two unresolved issues in the negotiations between the Americans and the Russians, but these can be resolved. If that happens, the Budapest peace summit could take place within days. And from then on, depending on the agreement between the parties, a ceasefire and peace could follow.
What does this peace mission mean to you? Would you have thought decades ago that one day peace would be identified with you, with you too?
I didn’t think so, because one always trusts that those who are bigger have more sense than oneself. So there would be no need for any Hungarian peace mission if the major European states had realised that there’s no solution to this war on the front lines. With Franco–German cooperation and the involvement of the Italians, it would be easy to reach an agreement with the Russians on a new European security system. But, as I see it, those bigger than us are misjudging the situation and leading the continent into war. How can I put it? I’m not striving for world peace, as you shouldn’t undertake something you’re not strong enough for: Hungary can contribute to world peace, but it’s a job for the big boys. But I have one primary responsibility, and in that my responsibility is greater than anyone else’s: to keep the Hungarians out of the war, and not allow Hungary to be dragged into it. There are two ways to achieve this. A: there’s peace, no war, and no danger. B: there’s war, but we stay out of it. This is the hand the machine has dealt us, this is what God has given us.
What kind of atmosphere can we expect at tomorrow’s talks, and how is the Prime Minister preparing? How nervous are you, and can you sleep properly at times like this?
Of course – I always sleep well. There’s no place where, if left alone, I can’t fall asleep immediately, as I’m several years behind: I have to make up for several years of lost sleep. This will be my sixth meeting with this president. What is there to be nervous about now? And if I’ve counted correctly, he’s the fifth American president with whom I’ll be negotiating. I didn’t start in this profession yesterday. I have a very good team, they’ve prepared me well, the negotiating delegations are made up of strong, serious people, and nothing can go wrong – even if I suddenly lose my form, there are people there to help me out. I’ve no reason for anxiety. I’m familiar with all the dossiers and my negotiating partner’s position. I can see where we agree and where we still need to compromise. I’m preparing myself for the fact that there can always be surprises, which is why I feel slight nerves, but I don’t feel any weakness or uncertainty that would cause me much anxiety. We’re not going to our enemies, but to our allies and friends. They don’t want to harm us, but want to conclude agreements that are good for them and good for us. This is different from when I go to Brussels, where I have to keep my eyes open even behind me, to make sure nothing bad happens.
What message does the fact that the Prime Minister is visiting America again send to Brussels and Europe?
That’s now the Brusselites’ problem. What’s important is to keep Hungary out of the war, and in the coming decade create the conditions necessary for economic development: partly security, partly a developed military industry, partly a well-functioning economy. For this we need partners, technological and business partners. I’m gathering these partners. Wherever I go in the world – be it Russia, China, the Arab or Turkic world, or indeed America – I look for partners for this grand Hungarian plan. And the number of our friends is growing nicely. The number of countries interested in Hungary’s success is increasing. One day I’ll have to win over Brussels too, but that’s another task for the future.
