At the press conference – which was broadcast live by the public service current affairs news channel M1 – held after the meeting of the European Council which lasted until the early hours of the morning, the Prime Minister said the meeting of the European Council was held in an unusually tense situation where the heads of state and government discussed the most difficult possible issue. “In actual fact, it was not a political meeting, but more a council of war.”
Ninety per cent of the contributions were about “how to defeat Russia,” while in the remaining ten per cent, Czech, Hungarian and Slovak politicians spoke about “how to restore peace,” he said.
The Prime Minister stressed that a myth was being spread in the western half of the continent to the effect that the Russo-Ukrainian war was not going to cost Western European people a penny because in the end they would seize the Russian assets in exchange for the war reparations to be paid by the Russians. However, it has now been revealed that this is not the case, they cannot count on these assets.
This is what people in Western Europe believe today, calmly having their breakfast at home: how right it is morally to help a small country that was attacked, but it is not such a small country, he said.
Therefore, he observed, the decision “is an enormous political challenge for all pro-war prime ministers.” The European people will pay for the flawed decisions of their leaders. This is the fact that will emerge with elemental force in Western European politics in the coming weeks, the Prime Minister stated.
Mr Orbán said the Belgian prime minister played an enormous role in the fact that the Russians assets will not be taken away. Rather than acting on the basis of geopolitical or moral considerations, he did the sums “when he effectively killed this proposal” as the bulk of this sum is in the custody of a Belgian financial institution, and so if this money is confiscated and Russia wins it back in a lawsuit, Belgium would be required to pay.
Belgium’s bankruptcy was at stake yesterday, and their prime minister did save Belgium from this, though there was extremely great pressure, especially from the Germans, he pointed out.
He also said had the frozen Russian assets been confiscated, the very next day, the Hungarian government would have been required to discuss where to transfer Hungary’s currency reserves because “we can’t leave them in a place where they might be confiscated.”
We are prepared for a scenario where we might have to rescue the currency reserves from this situation that is doubtful in terms of security, he laid down.
The European Union is embarking on a war course by virtue of the fact that it is taking out a war loan in order to support Ukraine, Mr Orbán stated, stressing that Hungary will have to work hard to prevent the Member States from dragging it “onto the path of war.”
He laid down that Hungary would be left out of the issue of the frozen Russian assets and the war loan. He added at the same time that he was convinced that the Europeans “have embarked on a path of war and want to defeat Russia; now, we must continuously make every effort to prevent them from dragging us along with them.”
The Prime Minister said this task is a historic challenge, it will require an astonishing political feat, a greater one than Governor Miklós Horthy or Prime Minister István Tisza would have been required to accomplish; a feat they did not succeed in. In his view, this will be the great political challenge of the next few years.
He recalled regarding the loan of EUR 90 billion to be provided for Ukraine that the EU – as it had no money – would take out a loan on the money markets, and would then give it to Ukraine in the form of credit.
The EU will be able to pay once the Ukrainians have paid the EU, he pointed out, highlighting in continuation that the Ukrainians are unable to pay, and so EU Member States will have to repay the loan.
He added that three countries – the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary – were not prepared to take part in this borrowing transaction.
In Mr Orbán’s opinion, European leaders have decided to take out a war loan and to give to one of the warring parties, and if they do not win, that loan will have to be repaid by their children and grandchildren, meaning that the future of their children and grandchildren is being indebted at present.
The Prime Minister said if, however, they defeat Russia, then Russia will pay because “the loser always pays.”
Describing the Thursday meeting as a council of war, Mr Orbán said those who decided on a war loan set the EU on a course which demands that Russia must be defeated. This is a money issue because if they fail to defeat Russia, then they will have to repay this sum, he stressed, adding that “from here on, the Member States concerned are running after their money, and this places the entire European Union on a war course.”
The Prime Minister described the proceedings of the meeting of the European Council as extremely serious. He said when the Germans started World War II, they said exactly the same as what he heard on Thursday: we will win, and we will pay the costs of the war from the winner’s loot.
Mr Orbán said responsibility for this state of affairs lies with the EPP, the European People’s Party is “the leading war party,” “that’s where all the trouble comes from.” He added that the European People’s Party was German. And while there will be elections in Germany, they will only be regional ones. No national election is due for the time being, and so therefore the chance of pro-peace forces prevailing in Germany is extremely slim.
“Therefore, living next to a Germany heading for war, we must stay out of the war, as we should have in 1914 and as we should have in 1939 as well,” he said.
Regarding the EU talks, Mr Orbán recalled that there had been one moment when he had entertained the idea of vetoing the loan to be taken out collectively with a view to supporting Ukraine as the amendment of the budget required unanimity.
He indicated that he had spoken to everyone he had to about this, to “the big boys,” but concluded that Hungary would not be able to bear a situation where all at once “all the large pro-war European countries become our direct and immediate enemies,” where “all at once we would have the German, French and Italian boots on our chest.”
Therefore, we had to be content with a lesser goal, the goal of staying out of the borrowing scheme which we achieved, he pointed out.
Responding to press reports, claiming that the French and the Italians were the ones who “killed” the plan regarding the utilisation of the frozen Russian assets during the talks, Mr Orbán said this indeed required the efforts of the French and the Italians, but in actual fact, it was the Belgian prime minister who reversed the whole situation.
“He was a brave man, despite the clank of the caterpillar tracks from the Germans’ side,” he observed.
He said the Belgian prime minister argued that if the Russians were to win the lawsuit to be instituted before a court of law due to the utilisation of their frozen assets, then the Belgians would have to bear the consequences. Therefore, he asked Member States of the EU to assume a minimum 75 per cent guarantee for such a situation in advance. Germany agreed to contribute 25 per cent, but no one else followed suit, he added.
Recalling the talks, regarding the German strategy, he said they usually push reason to one side; instead their tactic is “let’s push it, push it and push it some more, and in the end we’ll get there in the morning if needs be.” The “Latins” said, however, that this will not work.
Mr Orbán described the fact that the signing of the Mercosur deal fell through as a significant failure.
The farmers were there for a reason, the French, too, took on the fight, while the Italians politely said that we should come back to this issue in January, something that can be construed as a polite way of saying no, he said.
This will surely not consolidate the Commission’s positions, he concluded. He said the earlier balance of the European order of power has been upset. Earlier, Europe was led by the Council, while the Commission did its job in subordination to the Council. Now, due to various internal changes, the role of the Parliament has increased, and the Commission is existentially more exposed to the Parliament.
In answer to a question, he said according to the seven-year budget, Hungary is entitled to EUR 22 billion, while to another EUR 6 billion from the RRF fund. This is what they do not want to give us, we must fight for this, he laid down.
“I will get this out of them, there is no question about it, without making concessions of any kind on the issue of sovereignty,” he stated.
He indicated that the Hungarian position was that as long as we were not given the money we were entitled to, there would be no new budget which required unanimity.
Regarding Hungary’s EU membership, Mr Orbán said even if there was no money, even then it would still be worth staying in the EU due to its market. In his view, “despite all the badgering,” Hungary is still better off in the EU than without it, but there is no way of knowing how long this state of affairs will last.
The way people behave in Brussels is alien for a Hungarian: abuse of power, slyness, deception. This is not the Hungarians’ world, but despite this our interests tie us here, he argued. We must occupy it and change it, he added, indicating that Czech Prime Minister Andrej Babis, one of the founders of the Patriots, too, has “finally arrived,” and it is only a question of time before another one, President of FPÖ Herbert Kickl, too, finally arrives. We must change the centre of gravity in Brussels and then the world will look different, he pointed out, indicating that he is engaged in talks with the emerging forces of the Patriots party family, including with Marine Le Pen, about what turn – should they win – French economic policy would take and how they would relate to the issue of sovereignty. On the whole, from the viewpoint of a prospective political change, things are heading in the right direction, “we’ll just have to sit it out.”
In answer to a question, the Prime Minister also spoke about the fact that the veto was a valid and useful tool, without it, it made no sense for us to be in the EU.
He stressed that there was a direct connection between national sovereignty and living standards, and “therefore, we must not take part in an empire.”
“If they can take the veto away from nation states on decisive issues, then the whole European Union will turn into an empire which is not only an issue of sovereignty for the Hungarians – also for me personally – but also an economic issue. And I have yet to see a scenario where you have a good life within the confines of an oppressive empire,” Mr Orbán laid down.
In the context of the veto, the Prime Minister said whenever Hungary did not resort to this means, it always had a price. For instance, in the case of the sanctions packages, he did not exercise Hungary’s veto whenever Hungary’s fundamental interests were duly taken into consideration, including in the form that the nuclear area was removed from under the effect of the measures adopted.
In Mr Orbán’s opinion, there are no meaningful talks about the EU’s next seven-year budget for the time being because in Brussels they are waiting for the result of the upcoming Hungarian elections. If the present political alliance wins, if necessary, it will exercise its veto, while if “the Hungarian lieutenants of the European People’s Party, Tisza win,” then the situation will be different.
Regarding the US-Russian talks currently under way in Florida, the Prime Minister said “the differences that separate positions are clearly visible now” which is some progress because “in this whole war, the biggest problem is this swirling,” that there are no specifics, there are no set military goals.
In the context of the fate of the frozen Russian assets, Mr Orbán said while European leaders believe that “they’re kept here” by virtue of the fact that they decided on freezing them indefinitely, rather than for periods of six months, in the event of a US-Russian deal, the parties may conclude financial agreements in which these assets may play a part.
He indicated that the EU decision could not be an obstacle to peace, and neither could the sum of EUR 90 billion voted for Ukraine, as an amount of this magnitude “will not pull them out of the water,” given that the country is in a state of strategic defeat; the longer the war lasts, the weaker the Ukrainian negotiating position will be due to their retreat on the battlefield.
Without the European Union’s directly military involvement, this war cannot be won against the Russians, Mr Orbán stated, stressing that to this day the United States supplies Ukraine with equipment and information which cannot be obtained from elsewhere and without which the country’s war machinery would grind to a halt.
In answer to a question related to the Visegrád countries (V4), he said he also consulted with his Polish counterpart as Hungary is holding the V4 presidency at present, and promised not to place any issues on the agenda – including the issue of war and peace – on which the members are known to hold diverging views.
At the same time, on the issue of energy all four countries sing from the same hymn sheet, the Prime Minister said, indicating that in this regard the Polish prime minister asked for some time before giving an answer.
He added that as the V4 formation had not functioned for a long time now – “it was destroyed by the Germans” – on Thursday, Slovakia, the Czech Republic and Hungary combined forces on an ad hoc basis.
He also spoke about the fact that in Hungary the opposition refused to state their views on all the difficult issues. He recalled the resolution adopted by the European Parliament this week about detachment from Russian gas. He said Fidesz and the Christian Democratic People’s Party “fought heroically,” while Tisza’s MEPs walked out of the room.
The war, however, cannot be swept under the carpet, he said in continuation, because either there is a war or there is not.
Everything depends on whether a country has a pro-war or a pro-peace government, he stated in summary, recommending that the people should not vote for pro-war parties, they should vote for parties that stand for peace.
Mr Orbán said there is strategic sobriety in the Hungarians as he himself sometimes says harsh things, but when it comes to deciding, the Hungarians always deliberate soberly. We must not fall for the passions that storm through Hungarian politics from time to time. The Tisza Party is one of those, it is like when the dregs are stirred up. When they settle, everyone will see the situation clearly and will then decide, he said.
Regarding the migration pact, the Prime Minister said Hungary continues to reject it. He indicated that so far the situation had been that migrants had been coming from the South. Therefore, Hungary built a fence and stopped them. However, now the danger is that we should take in migrants from western countries and should build a refugee camp for the reception of 30,000 migrants or more overall.
In his view, the Tisza Party supports this pact by saying nothing about it. “But those who say nothing in actual fact support the enforcement of the migration pact,” he stated.
He recalled that on Thursday, 8 or 9 anti-migration prime ministers met in order to discuss this matter, and he suggested to them, too, that they rebel. In his view, on the issue of migration, they have got so far now that no one is allowed to say that the Hungarians were right or that everyone should do what the Hungarians do; instead, they must present everything that the Hungarians do as a proposal of their own.
He pointed out that the problems of Hungary and the other countries regarding the issue of migration radically diverged. Our problem is that Brussels wants to force us to let them in, while the others’ problem is that they have already let them in. Let us be happy that we’ve been luckier in this department so far, he observed.
