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In the interview broadcast from the public service media’s Brussels studio, regarding the proceedings of the Thursday EU summit in Brussels, Mr Orbán said they did so “in an enormous headwind;” the Hungarian announcement that Hungary will not consent to the opening of the first chapter of talks “did not invite undivided enthusiasm.”
He stressed that the talks were a long process, and Member States, including Hungary, were required to decide about the opening of each chapter unanimously. As long as there is no unanimity, the next chapter cannot be opened. He added that “efforts can be made in the background,” but no progress can be made on the path that leads to membership.
He indicated that EU leaders wanted Ukraine to become a member of the European Union as soon as possible, and were looking for ways to push the Hungarians aside.
“They haven’t succeeded in doing so even to date, even though I stood in their way all on my own as that single resisting Chinese man stood in front of the Chinese tanks in Tienanmen Square in the famous old picture. Now, however, 2,200,000 of us stood in their way, and we said that there is no path leading that way,” he said.
He also indicated that they understood the Ukrainians, they saw their extremely difficult situation and their heroic fight, and that they needed help, but “we want to help them by not destroying ourselves in the process.”
In his view, Ukraine’s EU membership would amount to the destruction of the European Union. He added that there were many other forms of cooperation available to Ukraine, including partnership. However, membership would mean that the Ukrainians would have the same rights as the Hungarians, for instance, if they wanted to work in Hungary, if they applied for agricultural grants or if they wanted a share of the funds available for EU developments.
At the same time, he said the decisive argument related to Ukraine’s EU membership is that the country is at war, and it does not matter whether this is through no fault of their own. He added that Ukraine “was evidently attacked,” the Ukrainians “are the victims of a military campaign in contravention of international law,” but for all that the fact remains that this is a war.
He pointed out that with Ukraine’s admission to the EU, we would also admit the war, and as a result, we would find ourselves at war with the Russians “within seconds.”
Mr Orbán indicated that, by contrast, EU leaders kept saying that Ukraine’s accession must take place within the shortest possible time, meaning that “this is a direct and imminent threat.”
According to the Prime Minister, the essence of the problem related to Ukraine lies in the fact that when a country is admitted to the EU, we must know where its borders lie and how big its population is, and it is only after this that we can talk about whether its legal system or economy is appropriate. At the same time, through no fault of their own, the Ukrainians are today “an undefined entity,” “no one is able to tell what Ukraine is,” “we don’t even know what it is today, let alone what will be left of it in the future,” he pointed out.
He observed that this threat had always existed whenever countries previously belonging to the former Soviet bloc had been admitted. Hence the solution that these countries were first admitted to NATO, thereby guaranteeing military security.
As a result, the EU did not have to deal with this, everyone knew that Hungary, Poland, Lithuania, Romania and others were members of NATO, where their borders lay, and that they would remain members of NATO because NATO, including the United States, guaranteed this with all its military might.
He underlined that this was, however, not the case with Ukraine. Ukraine cannot be admitted to NATO because it would mean that “the very next day we would find ourselves in World War III,” given that NATO would immediately find itself at war with the Russians. “This would amount to a world war, no one can possibly want that, or at least I sincerely hope that that is the case,” he observed.
He indicated that if the EU wanted to precede NATO and wanted to admit Ukraine sooner, then the war would be brought not to NATO, but to the European Union. The Prime Minister said this is madness, and we must talk about this sincerely and seriously.
He added: he knows that this is terrible news for Ukraine, that they are not admitted either to NATO or to the European Union, but you cannot feed empty promises to a country which is fighting and “sacrificing blood” for its own future every day. “We Hungarians are talking sincerely and seriously, while the Brusselites keep feeding the Ukrainians empty promises, they’re deceiving them, promising them something that is not possible,” Mr Orbán said.
Regarding the change in the general mood, he said the NATO summit was a simpler story because “along came the Americans, the new leadership,” and said “well, fine, we had this pleasant little get-together where you could talk all sorts of nonsense, but let’s be serious now. Do you seriously believe that Ukraine could be admitted to NATO? Forget it.” Our position became the majority in NATO, this became the NATO position, the Prime Minister laid down.
The European Union is more difficult. Brussels should be a mere coordinating centre, but they are increasingly behaving like Moscow from where they keep sending instructions to Budapest. “This is what Ursula von der Leyen and Mr Weber are doing,” they keep sending messages to Hungary partly directly, partly through Brussels parties – Tisza and DK [Democratic Coalition]. Sometimes there is direct contact such as Ursula von der Leyen’s most recent message, he said, observing that Ursula von der Leyen “is showing signs of turning into Brezhnev,” she is increasingly behaving like a Soviet party secretary general.
Mr Orbán stressed that we should not be scared by the fact that right not we are on our own because this had been precisely the case with migration, and the end result would be the same regarding the issue of Ukraine, too.
He said Ukraine’s EU membership would first have serious consequences in Central Europe and therefore this is where the general mood will change first. We will then be followed by the Germans, the Austrians, the Czechs, and finally, the French.
The Hungarian Prime Minister reacted to a statement by President of the European People’s Party Manfred Weber in which he said he is fed up with “Viktor Orbán dancing on the heads of European citizens.” Manfred Weber is so fed up that they swiftly put together a party, it is called the Tisza Party, and they even announced that a new government was coming, Brussels wants a different government in Hungary, and here is the Tisza Party along with its leader, he observed.
He added that Brussels saw the solution not in convincing us or coming to an agreement with us, but in installing a government which always voted the way Brussels wanted them to.
“This is why I’m saying that yesterday I had a debate with the masters of the Hungarian opposition. […] I must argue with the masters of the Tisza Party and DK here in Brussels, I must represent the Hungarian interests against them,” he said, highlighting that Tisza and DK are mere Brussels agents who rather than representing the Hungarians in Brussels represent Brussels in Hungary.
He observed that the plan relating to the ban on the importation of Russian energy carriers had not been on the agenda in Brussels this time, but the struggle would continue next week at the level of the foreign ministers. He indicated that together with the Slovaks we were unable to accept the EU demand that we stop buying Russian oil and gas because as a result, the household energy bills of families would double in the case of electricity and would increase three and a half-fold in the case of gas.
He said the European Commission wants to introduce the ban on importation effective from 2027-2028, but such a decision would immediately start pushing prices up, given that long-term contracts could no longer be concluded at favourable prices.
In answer to a question, Mr Orbán recalled that Ursula von der Leyen had called upon the Hungarian authorities to authorise Pride in Budapest. She did so on the same basis as Moscow once did: she regards Hungary as a subordinate, and believes that she can instruct the Hungarians from Brussels how to live, what to like, what not to like, what their legal system should be like, what they should ban, what they should not.
He stressed, however, that the holding of the event was subject to prior notification, and the police were required to give the go-ahead. If the police refuse to do so, then the organisers can go to court, and the court’s say will be final. Anyone who violates this procedure, anyone who does not observe this procedure organises or attends an event that is prohibited by law.
“I advise everyone to decide what they want. They should observe the laws. I do so myself, I advise everyone else, too, to do so. If they don’t, they must expect the statutory consequences that are clearly laid down,” he pointed out.
He added that the police could break up such events, they had the right to do so, “but Hungary is not such a world.” If anyone organises such an event, it will have a legal consequence, but it cannot reach the level of physical brutality, he indicated.
The duty of the police is not to resort to violence, but to convince people to follow the laws. There are, of course, instances when the police are compelled to resort to violence against criminals, but this is not the case here, he said regarding Pride.
When you look at the capital, all you see is chaos, traffic jams and Pride, the Prime Minister said, evaluating the situation in Budapest, adding that he is sure there are many in Budapest who like the city the way it is, this is their taste, their opinion, “but I don’t like it.” Naturally, the Mayor of Budapest does not have to accept this because “I’m just one citizen of many,” but in the meantime, the city is bankrupt, there are permanent traffic jams, you cannot move about, and there would be plenty of work to do. They have no money, despite the fact that they have ample sources of revenue, yet, the money always disappears, and instead of managing the capital’s bankruptcy, they are organising Pride, he stated. “I don’t want to interfere because this is the capital’s business. All I can say is that this whole thing as it stands is utterly disgraceful,” he pointed out.
This is a great city, this is the capital of the nation, our city, we love it, and so it would deserve a leadership which does not allow the city to go to waste and which takes full advantage of the fantastic life opportunities that are inherent in this city. It would be possible to live well in this city; compared with this, we spend our days with daily frustrations, he added.
Regarding astronaut Tibor Kapu’s space travel, the Prime Minister pointed out that we were all proud now, and we had good reason because he was an excellent man who was in a physical and intellectual state which allowed him to be up in space and to represent us – “as he said, 15 million Hungarians” – as a member of an international team. We doff our hats and thank him for making Hungary proud and for giving us a reason for being proud of being Hungarians,” he stated.
At some point, we should also talk about the fact that Hungary has major capabilities in the space sector, he pointed out. We believe that only big countries have business with space as they have the means to launch spacecraft, but this is not the case, he laid down. A great many parts, equipment, experiments and many other things are required to conduct any activity in space, he added. In Hungary, “now I’m talking about private firms,” there are companies with serious expertise which make important professional, scientific and intellectual contributions to various space missions, and do good business in the process, he said.
Space business is not an unattainable territory for Hungary, he pointed out. “I’m not saying that it will replace agriculture in the next few years,” but it is an area which keeps growing and conveys ever more opportunities. It is good if Hungarian businesses are present in the sector on a private basis and if every now and then we indicate with one symbolic affair or another – such as our astronaut now – that we Hungarians, too, are there in this industry, if you like, in the industry of the future, that the Hungarians cannot be counted out, he said in conclusion.
